Originally posted by Truthseeker
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Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
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Jesus and His disciples ate the Passover when?
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. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostBut the first day of unleavened bread was Mark 14:12.Jesus and His disciples eat the Passover after sunset of the 15th of Nisan (Mark 14:17).Because it was the 15th if Nisan a holy convocation where only no servile work can be done (Numbers 28:18; Exodus 12:16 explains what that means). Joseph of Arimathaea would not have asked for the bodies until after sundown (Mark 15:42, 43). And they only had that day to place Jesus in the tomb before the 7th day Sabbath (a full rest) that followed.The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu
[T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations
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Originally posted by Truthseeker View PostNow let's be careful. Let's look at this Exodus passage http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0212.htm#3 and bear in mind the passage probably follows the Jewish counting of days. So, the Passover lambs are killed in the night and consumed before the morning of 14 Nisan.
Another thing I think is that Jews often refer to the Passover day as the first day of the Feast of Matzos. I believe you are in error here. What the group is then eating is not the Passover seder. I admit to being mistaken that Jesus never ate the Passover; he did eat that earlier.
I am puzzled, unless there was a day before Saturday (as the Jews count the days) in which Jesus was buried, i.e., 15 Nisan is actually Thursday, and 17 Nisan is Saturday.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostNo, it was consumed before the morning of the 15th!
Perhaps you can explain.The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu
[T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations
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Originally posted by Truthseeker View PostThis is after the Passover Day (14th of Nisan, as the Jews count the days)? I did read something to the effect that there can be 2 days of consuming the Passover meals. That is puzzling to me.
Perhaps you can explain.
http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_...Chapter-12.htm
The historical observance was from the late afternoon of the 14th to the morning of the 15th where none of the Passover lamb was to remain. So typically today modern Jews who observe the Passover, from the evening (sunset) beginning of the 15th, the following calendar day being the 15th is the Passover marked on modern calendars. This is my understanding.
I do not know where two days come from.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostI do not know where two days come from.
So actually two days are involved: From late afternoon of the 14th to the morning of the 15th. I incorrectly assumed only one day could be involved as far as the Passover seder is concerned. Sorry.The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu
[T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations
Comment
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Originally posted by Truthseeker View PostThank you. Readers will please excuse my faulty memory and poor reading.
So actually two days are involved: From late afternoon of the 14th to the morning of the 15th. I incorrectly assumed only one day could be involved as far as the Passover seder is concerned. Sorry.
Here is one commentary:
His interpretation and conclusion is in agreement with common tradition.
It is, as I have repeated, my understanding that Jesus and His disciple eat that Passover on the 15th of Nisan (Mark 14:12-17, . . .). Jesus being crucified on the 15th of Nisan. Which cannot fall on even days of the week, not 2nd, 4th or 6th day of the week.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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No, it was consumed before the morning of the 15th!
And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
That is fine. But the first day of unleavened bread was Mark 14:12.
And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?
And this is why I say that your position is incoherent. It sure seems like you keep changing it.
It is my understanding, Jesus was placed in the tomb Thursday evening the 16th of Nisan. And the women had all that day (Friday) to prepare.
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Originally posted by Obsidian View PostThen what sabbath were they concerned about, with regard to leaving his body up?The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu
[T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations
Comment
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Originally posted by Obsidian View PostNo, it was consumed before the morning of the 15th!
And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
An extra Bibical Jewish source, The Book of Jubilees,
""Remember the commandment which the Lord commanded thee concerning the Passover, that thou shouldst celebrate it in its season on the fourteenth of the first month, that thou shouldst kill it before it is evening, and that they should eat it by night on the evening of the fifteenth from the time of the setting of the sun."
-- Source. About this source: The Jewish Encyclopedia, Jubilees, the book of.
"And ye shall keep it until the fourteenth day of this month; and the whole congregation of the assembly of Israel shall kill it between the two evenings." -- Exodus 12:6, John Darby Translation 1884-1890.
That is fine. But the first day of unleavened bread was Mark 14:12.
And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?
And this is why I say that your position is incoherent. It sure seems like you keep changing it.
It is my understanding, Jesus was placed in the tomb Thursday evening the 16th of Nisan. And the women had all that day (Friday) to prepare.Last edited by 37818; 05-05-2014, 09:07 PM.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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