Mark 14:12

[37818]

. . . And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover. . . . Mark 14:12

What is the date on the Jewish calendar this event refers to? I understand it to refer to the 14th of Nisan (Exodus 12:).

. . . the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening [afternoon]. . . . v.6

. . . In the first [month], on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even. . . . v.18

Which places Christ's crucifixion on the 15th.

Of which it says, ". an holy convocation, and . . . no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you. . . ." v.16 and context.

The Romans carried out the execution not the Jews.

[Faber]

I posted somewhere about a month or two ago my opinion that Jesus and His disciples were following a different calendar, and that they celebrated the Passover on Tuesday after sunset, which would have been Tuesday night, 12 Nisan according to Levitical calendar, 15 Nisan according to the Essene/Jubilee calendar, or April 4, AD 30 of the Julian calendar.

The more commonly held view in the Christian community is that the Last Supper was what is known as Maundy Thursday, or Thursday after sunset, April 6, AD 30, and that according to the Levitical calendar the daytime of Thursday, April 6 was 13 Nisan, the day in which the lambs were to be sacrificed. After sunset,Thursday, April 6 became 14 Nisan, the beginning of the Passover feast. The next morning was Friday April 7, the day of preparation for the sabbath as well as Passover day. At sunset, Friday April 7, the sabbath, 15 Nisan began.

So we got three things going: (1) what I think was the date of the Last Supper, which agrees with the earliest church fathers; (2) the more commonly held church tradition, and (3) the Levitical calendar. All three agree on what day the crucifixion actually took place, during the day on Friday, April 7, or 14 Nisan.

I hope I got that right.

Tuesday, April 4; daytime = 11 Nisan (But the date on which several people, including Jesus, sacrificed their lambs; my opinion).
--- After sunset, beginning of 12 Nisan (Levitical calendar); 15 Nisan according to Essene/Jubilee calendar and the Last Supper; arrest of Jesus (my opinion).
Wednesday, April 5; daytime = 12 Nisan. First day of trial of Jesus (my opinion)
--- After sunset, beginning of 13 Nisan.
Thursday, April 6; daytime = 13 Nisan. Second day of trial of Jesus (As required by Jewish law), before Pilate and Herod (my opinion)
--- After sunset, traditional date of the Last Supper, actually on 14 Nisan.
Friday, April 7; daytime = 14 Nisan, day of preparation and sacrifice of the lambs. Crucifixion of Jesus.
--- After sunset = beginning of 15 Nisan, beginning of the Passover meal (seder); beginning of the sabbath.
Saturday, April 8; daytime = 15 Nisan, day of Passover, daytime of the sabbath.

[37818]

I posted somewhere about a month or two ago my opinion that Jesus and His disciples were following a different calendar, and that they celebrated the Passover on Tuesday after sunset, which would have been Tuesday night, 12 Nisan according to Levitical calendar, 15 Nisan according to the Essene/Jubilee calendar, or April 4, AD 30 of the Julian calendar.

The more commonly held view in the Christian community is that the Last Supper was what is known as Maundy Thursday, or Thursday after sunset, April 6, AD 30, and that according to the Levitical calendar the daytime of Thursday, April 6 was 13 Nisan, the day in which the lambs were to be sacrificed. After sunset,Thursday, April 6 became 14 Nisan, the beginning of the Passover feast. The next morning was Friday April 7, the day of preparation for the sabbath as well as Passover day. At sunset, Friday April 7, the sabbath, 15 Nisan began.

So we got three things going: (1) what I think was the date of the Last Supper, which agrees with the earliest church fathers; (2) the more commonly held church tradition, and (3) the Levitical calendar. All three agree on what day the crucifixion actually took place, during the day on Friday, April 7, or 14 Nisan.

I hope I got that right.

Tuesday, April 4; daytime = 11 Nisan (But the date on which several people, including Jesus, sacrificed their lambs; my opinion).
--- After sunset, beginning of 12 Nisan (Levitical calendar); 15 Nisan according to Essene/Jubilee calendar and the Last Supper; arrest of Jesus (my opinion).
Wednesday, April 5; daytime = 12 Nisan. First day of trial of Jesus (my opinion)
--- After sunset, beginning of 13 Nisan.
Thursday, April 6; daytime = 13 Nisan. Second day of trial of Jesus (As required by Jewish law), before Pilate and Herod (my opinion)
--- After sunset, traditional date of the Last Supper, actually on 14 Nisan.
Friday, April 7; daytime = 14 Nisan, day of preparation and sacrifice of the lambs. Crucifixion of Jesus.
--- After sunset = beginning of 15 Nisan, beginning of the Passover meal (seder); beginning of the sabbath.
Saturday, April 8; daytime = 15 Nisan, day of Passover, daytime of the sabbath.

Mark 14:12 was the day before the evening vs. 17-18. The question is what day according to the Jewish calendar did the event of Mark 14:12 take place?

[Faber]

Again, my opinion is that this was 11 Nisan (Tuesday, April 4, AD 30). The majority of Christians hold that this was 13 Nisan (Thursday, April 6). The official legitimate date in which the priests officially killed the lambs was supposed to be 14 Nisan.

Then there's some character named rstrats (a troll) who pops up once every three months on this website and other websites who claims that according to Matthew 12:40 the crucifixion took place on Thursday, and therefore the Last Supper and the sacrifice of the Passover lamb took place on Wednesday. The last time he showed up was 11/4/2017, so he's about due for a reappearance.

[37818]

Again, my opinion is that this was 11 Nisan (Tuesday, April 4, AD 30). The majority of Christians hold that this was 13 Nisan (Thursday, April 6). The official legitimate date in which the priests officially killed the lambs was supposed to be 14 Nisan.

Then there's some character named rstrats (a troll) who pops up once every three months on this website and other websites who claims that according to Matthew 12:40 the crucifixion took place on Thursday, and therefore the Last Supper and the sacrifice of the Passover lamb took place on Wednesday. The last time he showed up was 11/4/2017, so he's about due for a reappearance.

Your opinion that is fine. What is the source for Nisan 11? The source for Nisan 13? An explanation or a claim again is fine. But where did the claim come from? What is the source evidence?

[Faber]

Because the Hebrew calendar was based primarily on actual observations of the crescent moon, not on astronomical calculations (Talmud BabliDanjon limitJournal of the Royal Astronomical Society of Canada

[37818]

Because the Hebrew calendar was based primarily on actual observations of the crescent moon, not on astronomical calculations (Talmud BabliDanjon limitJournal of the Royal Astronomical Society of Canada

The question is in regard to Mark 14:12 as what Jewish date it was, not how the date was reckoned. What day of the week the event took place is another question.

The year of the crucifixion is yet another question. The supposed year had long been held to be 30 AD. It was do to astronomical calculation to be 33 AD!

So again what date should we understand the day of the event of Mark 14:12 to be? Nisan 11? Nisan 13? Nisan 14? And why?

[Faber]

11 Nisan or 13 Nisan. Take your pick.

[37818]

11 Nisan or 13 Nisan. Take your pick.

Neither would be my pick. You seem to think it could be either. OK. My question then becomes why? I presume either of those dates have a good reason. I have often heard 13th argued. I have never seen the historical biblical justification.

[Faber]

[37818]

There are some number of issues. I intended to have Mark 14:12 addressed.

The evidence seems to point to what would then be a popular myth - that Christ had to be crucified on the 14th of the month. The following day from Mark 14:12 being interpreted as the 14th would make that day the 13th.

Hebrews 10:1 explains, ". . . For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. . . ."

[Faber]

While I may question the date of the Last Supper and the arrest of Jesus, I agree with the majority that Jesus was crucified on the 14th of Nisan, the day before the Passover feast as observed by the priests and the Pharisees. Even the Babylonian Talmud, the holiest of Hebrew writings, even higher than the Old Testament, agrees:

On the eve of the Passover Yeshu was hanged. (tractate Sanhedrin, folio 43a)

[37818]

The Passover has 8 evenings. One for the passover day and seven of the Passover feast (see Luke 22:1 the feast being called the Passover).

[37818]

The fact remains that Mark 14:12 biblically only refers to the 14th of that month. The 13th is an unbiblical invention to supposedly allow a 14th crucifixion. Biblically the Passover sin offering is on the 15th.

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The date of what is spoken of in Mark 14:12 was the day before Christ was crucified.

In 30AD it was April 5, a Wednesday.
In 33AD it was April 3, a Friday.