College librarians argue Christians who say 'God bless you' are Islamophobic

[Charles]

Liberal 1: "I'm offended!"
Liberal 2: "Then I will fight for your right not to be offended, and I will keep fighting until we achieve social justice!"

White Christen Male: "I'm offended!"
Liberal: "LOL stop whining."

I am glad there a more liberals and white christian men in the real world than we find in this made up text. Both parts are doing much better than you would think reading this

[Mountain Man]

I am glad there a more liberals and white christian men in the real world than we find in this made up text. Both parts are doing much better than you would think reading this

If there's a coherent point here, I can't find it.

[Psychic Missile]

They are claiming that White Americans are saying things like "God Bless You" to people who may not be of their culture. They are claiming that is a microaggression. My examples showed the same in reverse. If you were in a muslim country, they would assume their culture and address you in the manner of their culture. It would not be a microaggression there either, and I think you recognize that fact. The problem is that you cannot connect the two because it would cause cognitive dissonance in your head and you might explode in a puff of illogic.

[Psychic Missile]

Liberal 1: "I'm offended!"
Liberal 2: "Then I will fight for your right not to be offended, and I will keep fighting until we achieve social justice!"

White Christen Male: "I'm offended!"
Liberal: "LOL stop whining."

It's almost like there is a societal and historic context!

[Charles]

If there's a coherent point here, I can't find it.

Which says quite a lot. Among my friends you find quite many Christians, perhaps more Christians than atheists or agnostics. And you find people with all sorts of political opinions. None of us would have a discussion in which we put each other into boxes like "you are a liberal, so you think like this" or "you are a Christian so you think like this". We are not having that type of discussion simply because it is a simplification and does not allow you to go for the really important points people may actually have. We have our different views, but we don't go for the "boxing in" of ideas. If my friend has a point, I consider it. I do not first and foremost consider whether he is a Christian, atheist or whatever.

[Sparko]

I've explained to you what microaggressions are and I've told you that I don't think "God bless you" is a good example.

We are not talking about what you think they are. We are talking about what the college librarians in the article think they are. They apparently do think merely saying "God bless you" is a microaggresssion. They defined a microaggression as a slight against a person, compared to a macroaggression which is a slight against a group.

They ARE NOT microaggressions. If a muslim greets or treats you in a traditional muslim way, he is not trying to insult you, is he? He is accepting you as one of his culture. That is a compliment. Not an insult. If you were to visit a Japanese family, and they asked you to remove your shoes and put on a kimono and offered you saki and then took you to their Shinto shrine and lit some incense and said a blessing for you, would they be trying to insult you? Would they be making a microaggression? Or would they be welcoming you into their world and sharing their culture and religion?

[Psychic Missile]

We are not talking about what you think they are. We are talking about what the college librarians in the article think they are. They apparently do think merely saying "God bless you" is a microaggresssion. They defined a microaggression as a slight against a person, compared to a macroaggression which is a slight against a group.

The point is that it is a minor part of a larger message that they copied wholly from another source.

They ARE NOT microaggressions. If a muslim greets or treats you in a traditional muslim way, he is not trying to insult you, is he? He is accepting you as one of his culture. That is a compliment. Not an insult. If you were to visit a Japanese family, and they asked you to remove your shoes and put on a kimono and offered you saki and then took you to their Shinto shrine and lit some incense and said a blessing for you, would they be trying to insult you? Would they be making a microaggression? Or would they be welcoming you into their world and sharing their culture and religion?

You are again conflating presumption and custom. I do not consider greetings, removing shoes indoors, wearing formal clothing, or drinking certain types of alcohol microaggressions. Taking someone to your place of worship and blessing them without considering their feelings is rude at best. Someone who commits a microaggression does not have to have any shred of ill will to do so. All you have to do to avoid committing a microaggression is to not stereotype people and not assume everyone else is just like you, a.k.a considering other people's feelings.

[Zymologist]

The point is that it is a minor part of a larger message that they copied wholly from another source.



You are again conflating presumption and custom. I do not consider greetings, removing shoes indoors, wearing formal clothing, or drinking certain types of alcohol microaggressions. Taking someone to your place of worship and blessing them without considering their feelings is rude at best. Someone who commits a microaggression does not have to have any shred of ill will to do so. All you have to do to avoid committing a microaggression is to not stereotype people and not assume everyone else is just like you, a.k.a considering other people's feelings.

From what I've seen of the definition and description of microaggression I don't think this is true at all. Consider this list.

A couple easy examples:

1. "Where are you from?" is a racial microaggression.
2. Saying "I believe the most qualified person should get the job" is a microaggression

[Sparko]

The point is that it is a minor part of a larger message that they copied wholly from another source.

You are again conflating presumption and custom. I do not consider greetings, removing shoes indoors, wearing formal clothing, or drinking certain types of alcohol microaggressions.

Good for you, but again, we are not discussing you, we are discussing the college librarians who do consider greetings and customs to be microagressions.

Taking someone to your place of worship and blessing them without considering their feelings is rude at best.

Actually it would be kidnapping. Because Christians routinely toss muslims into their cars and drive them to church.

Someone who commits a microaggression does not have to have any shred of ill will to do so. All you have to do to avoid committing a microaggression is to not stereotype people and not assume everyone else is just like you, a.k.a considering other people's feelings.

of course you have to have a will to do so. How would it be aggression else-wise? And it is not stereotyping.

And if it is done to me, I would not have my feelings hurt. When I go to Europe, it happens to me all the time. I find being treated like a "native" or being welcomed into other cultures as a treat and a compliment. Whether you get offended or pleased by something is entirely up to you.

[Psychic Missile]

From what I've seen of the definition and description of microaggression I don't think this is true at all. Consider this list.

A couple easy examples:

1. "Where are you from?" is a racial microaggression.
2. Saying "I believe the most qualified person should get the job" is a microaggression

The list you linked to explains why those are wrong just inches away on your monitor. Example 1 is stereotyping and example 2 is assuming everyone else is like you. Example 2 is also missing the context, which is discussions about affirmative action.

[Zymologist]

The list you linked to explains why those are wrong just inches away on your monitor. Example 1 is stereotyping and example 2 is assuming everyone else is like you. Example 2 is also missing the context, which is discussions about affirmative action.

So if I ask somebody where they're from I'm committing a racist microaggression?

But anyway this misses my point: you said "All you have to do to avoid committing a microaggression is to not stereotype people and not assume everyone else is just like you, a.k.a considering other people's feelings." I can easily think of a case of asking somebody question #1 without violating that sentence, which makes what you said untrue. That's IMO quite clearly not the case when it comes to microaggressions. (i.e., I will genuinely not know when something can or will be construed as a microaggression, so my consideration of other people's feelings has very little to do with it.)

[Psychic Missile]

Good for you, but again, we are not discussing you, we are discussing the college librarians who do consider greetings and customs to be microagressions.

I guess you're right about holiday greetings, I was thinking you meant something along the lines of "hello" or any of its translations. Do you not think "Happy Easter" is a microaggression? Why would you say "Happy Easter" to someone if you don't know if they are Christian?

Actually it would be kidnapping. Because Christians routinely toss muslims into their cars and drive them to church.

You gave that example for Shintoists. Are you conceding your own example?

of course you have to have a will to do so. How would it be aggression else-wise? And it is not stereotyping.

And if it is done to me, I would not have my feelings hurt. When I go to Europe, it happens to me all the time. I find being treated like a "native" or being welcomed into other cultures as a treat and a compliment. Whether you get offended or pleased by something is entirely up to you.

It's just a name, don't take it so literally. What parts of being treated like or native or being welcomed into another culture do you think I or anyone else consider microaggressions?

[Psychic Missile]

So if I ask somebody where they're from I'm committing a racist microaggression?

But anyway this misses my point: you said "All you have to do to avoid committing a microaggression is to not stereotype people and not assume everyone else is just like you, a.k.a considering other people's feelings." I can easily think of a case of asking somebody question #1 without violating that sentence, which makes what you said untrue. That's IMO quite clearly not the case when it comes to microaggressions. (i.e., I will genuinely not know when something can or will be construed as a microaggression, so my consideration of other people's feelings has very little to do with it.)

A lot of Asian and Hispanic people in the US get asked by white people where they're from because of their race. It is assumed that they were not born in America. That is a racist microaggression. The list is clearly not talking about someone saying they are on vacation here and you asking where they're from or anything like that which is divorced from the racial context. Is that along the lines of what you were thinking?

[Sparko]

I guess you're right about holiday greetings, I was thinking you meant something along the lines of "hello" or any of its translations. Do you not think "Happy Easter" is a microaggression? Why would you say "Happy Easter" to someone if you don't know if they are Christian?

Again, if a Jewish person wishes me a Happy Hannukah, I will not be offended. If a Muslim wishes me a Happy Ramadan, I am not offended. They were not making microaggressions against me. They were wishing me well and enjoyment of their holiday. If someone wished me Happy Ramadan, I would say, "Happy Ramadan to you to my friend!" - That is what normal, non paranoid people do. They don't take offense at other cultures or religions or expressions of the people who belong to them.

You gave that example for Shintoists. Are you conceding your own example?

I said if they invited you into their home and they had a shrine or something religious there. You said "Taking someone to their place of worship" as if it were unwillingly. I was making a joke based on that to point out the absurdity of your strawman argument.

It's just a name, don't take it so literally. What parts of being treated like or native or being welcomed into another culture do you think I or anyone else consider microaggressions?

Apparently everything, PM. You seem to be offended if people assume others are part of their culture instead of recognizing they might be of a different culture, and then you turn around and think that it is offensive to assume someone is from a different culture and ask where are they from.

With you liberals, it is always lose-lose and you get offended no matter what.

[Mountain Man]

So if I ask somebody where they're from I'm committing a racist microaggression?

Of course you are, because assuming that everybody is not your biological and cultural clone is racist! How dare you imply that there is diversity in the world!

Or something... I don't know, I have a really hard time thinking down to the level of liberals.