2018 Midterm Elections

[Tassman]

Demi is a dope! nough said.

Or, as Rex Tillerson said so perceptively of Trump, "He's a "f...... moron"

[Starlight]

You're close. The USA ranks 19th on the Human Development Index (Australia is 3rd). And NZ at 8th tops Australia in the UN Happiness Index with Australia ranking 10th.

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/artic...018/index.html

Well my estimate of 20th place was informed by the many and various comparative international analyses I've seen. I haven't visited every country in the world myself.

Of the two international analyses you cite, the Human Development Index which mixes measures of life expectancy, education, and per capita income, places the US 10th= and if social inequality is added to the measure then the US drops to 18th (for 2015 data which seems to be the latest year), and the UN World Happiness Report which surveys happiness around the world ranked the US 18th in its 2018 report.

IIRC I once started a thread in this forum looking at multiple different international comparative analyses... but I can't seem to find it.

[Sparko]

That was what I thought I was saying. Did you read it differently?


Because you know I'm not stupid, and hence you know I wouldn't believe a crazy idea like American Exceptionalism?

I see there are a lot of different definitions of American Exceptionalism. If there exists a version you hold to, that isn't self-evidently false like nearly all versions of it I've seen are, then please do put forth your definition here.

As you do, please remember that Canada, Australia, and New Zealand were all settled by predominantly English-speaking peoples of British and mixed European descent like the US was. If you are going to claim that the US is exceptional, you will need something that distinguishes it from those.

My own country of New Zealand, being the last of those countries to be colonized, attempted to learn from the lessons and histories of those other colonies, and as a result the process went a lot smoother in general here, with much less genociding of the natives, and the UK granting us a status of self-governing democracy from the beginning. We were subsequently the first country to give women the vote, the first western country where the government provided healthcare to all our people (Soviet Union beat us to it), now get pretty consistently ranked the least corrupt country in the world, and consistently rank in the top-10 of happiest countries in the world (unlike the US) along with Canada and Australia and the Scandinavian nations in the annual UN World Happiness reports.

So please do tell about how you think the US is 'exceptional'...? It isn't the happiest, it isn't the least corrupt, it isn't the greatest land mass, it isn't the most populous or the densest or most sparsely populated, it isn't the most religious, it isn't the oldest or the youngest, it doesn't have the most or least rights for its people, it currently happens to have the biggest military but that was far from true earlier in its history, it currently has the biggest economy (though not if the comparable EU is included) but that was also far from true earlier in its history, it is vastly far from the only country to have a constitution and IMO has a very out of date constitution that urgently needs replacing, it is far from the only country to have a democracy (and IMO it's level of democracy is questionable - NZ, Australia, Canada, and the Scandinavian countries are ranked significantly ahead on the Democracy Index)... etc.

Overall I would say it's a decent country with a lot of issues, but I wouldn't say it makes the top ten for overall best country in the world (I would tend to rank it around 20th). I am certainly hard pressed to imagine how you'd claim it was exceptional.

You sound so desperate to matter. Like a little skinny fella flexing his muscles next to the body builder on the beach, hoping to impress the girls and just looking sad.

[Roy]

So please do tell about how you think the US is 'exceptional'...?

It's the only country that has more guns than people.

It used to have the highest incarceration rate too, but is now 2nd to the Seychelles.
It has the highest total defence spending, but falls behind Saudi Arabia when population size is taken into account.
It was the country whose citizens could enter most other countries without visas; it may still be.

In short, the US is the country that it's easiest to leave before you get shot.

[lilpixieofterror]

It's the only country that has more guns than people.

It used to have the highest incarceration rate too, but is now 2nd to the Seychelles.
It has the highest total defence spending, but falls behind Saudi Arabia when population size is taken into account.
It was the country whose citizens could enter most other countries without visas; it may still be.

In short, the US is the country that it's easiest to leave before you get shot.

[Sparko]

Without the US, none of the rest of your countries would even exist. You would all be speaking German or Japanese.

[carpedm9587]

Without the US, none of the rest of your countries would even exist. You would all be speaking German or Japanese.

So we should consider ourselves "exceptional" because of a war fought by our grandfathers and great grandfathers 74+ years ago?


When people raise the question of American exceptionalism - I am reminded of this clip from "Newsroom"

A bit more humbling than "American exceptionalism."

(the bad language has been bleeped out...)

[Sparko]

So we should consider ourselves "exceptional" because of a war fought by our grandfathers and great grandfathers 74+ years ago?


When people raise the question of American exceptionalism - I am reminded of this clip from "Newsroom"

A bit more humbling than "American exceptionalism."

(the bad language has been bleeped out...)

Yep. And if we disappeared now, the free world probably would too.

Like it or not, and Starlight really doesn't like it, America is still the most important country on the planet.

And we are the country everyone wants to go to for opportunity and freedom.

[carpedm9587]

Yep. And if we disappeared now, the free world probably would too.

That's a kind of "what if" speculation I find largely pointless. If I say no, you insist yes, and neither of us could make the case - so I'll leave you to this without further comment.

Like it or not, and Starlight really doesn't like it, America is still the most important country on the planet.

Given the strength of our military - possibly true. The economics, however, are rapidly shifting.

And we are the country everyone wants to go to for opportunity and freedom.

This is a narrow, "American" view. There is significant immigration to Australia, the Scandanavian countries, Germany, France, England, South Africa, Canada, and several other countries. And, since Trump was elected, we have seen a sharp drop off not only in immigration (both legal and illegal), but also in tourism.

[Sparko]

That's a kind of "what if" speculation I find largely pointless. If I say no, you insist yes, and neither of us could make the case - so I'll leave you to this without further comment.

really? Without the USA holding off countries like China, Russia, North Korea, etc, it's pretty clear that the rest of the free world would fall pretty quickly.

Given the strength of our military - possibly true. The economics, however, are rapidly shifting.

maybe. We still have the strongest economy in the world.

This is a narrow, "American" view. There is significant immigration to Australia, the Scandanavian countries, Germany, France, England, South Africa, Canada, and several other countries. And, since Trump was elected, we have seen a sharp drop off not only in immigration (both legal and illegal), but also in tourism.

But America and "the American Dream" are still the pinnacle of what people want. It is still the land of opportunity.

We used to be greater, but we are still exceptional. Despite liberalism.

[carpedm9587]

really? Without the USA holding off countries like China, Russia, North Korea, etc, it's pretty clear that the rest of the free world would fall pretty quickly.

As I said, Sparko - I find this type of speculation pointless.If that's what you believe - so be it...

maybe. We still have the strongest economy in the world.

For now...

But America and "the American Dream" are still the pinnacle of what people want. It is still the land of opportunity.

We used to be greater, but we are still exceptional. Despite liberalism.

We used to be greater...we are not "exceptional," and the fall is not due to any one political position. It has been contributed to by all concerned.

What's the saying, before you go after the spec in your neighbor's eye...?

[JimL]

really? Without the USA holding off countries like China, Russia, North Korea, etc, it's pretty clear that the rest of the free world would fall pretty quickly.

And yet you elected a wannabe dictator like Trump who along with your help, and Putins, is doing all he can to undermine the free world you say you love so much. Sad!

[carpedm9587]

And yet you elected a wannabe dictator like Trump who along with your help, and Putins, is doing all he can to undermine the free world you say you love so much. Sad!

I think opne of the things I am most fed-up with is the new trend to end a thought with "Sad!"

Uggghh...

[Sparko]

As I said, Sparko - I find this type of speculation pointless.If that's what you believe - so be it...



For now...



We used to be greater...we are not "exceptional," and the fall is not due to any one political position. It has been contributed to by all concerned.

What's the saying, before you go after the spec in your neighbor's eye...?

You seem to be the one going after specks.

But like I said, despite liberalism and the requisite negativity and self-loathing that comes with it, America and its people are still exceptional. You can be ordinary if you wish.

[Zymologist]

I think opne of the things I am most fed-up with is the new trend to end a thought with "Sad!"

Uggghh...

You could say I find it downright...sad!