RIP Stephen

[Sparko]

Okay. Do you know the OFFICIAL 9/11 narrative?
Could you summarize it here in a few sentences just so that I know that you know?
Specifically, who did they report was the (sole) perpetrator of 9/11 and,
did things happen as they say it did, i.e., are their accounts and explanations *believable*?

Jorge

Jorge, you made the claim, you support what you said. I am not going to play your dumbass game. You are afraid to back up your claim, aren't you? Maybe because you know it will make you look like the loon that you are.

[Jorge]

Jorge, you made the claim, you support what you said. I am not going to play your dumbass game. You are afraid to back up your claim, aren't you? Maybe because you know it will make you look like the loon that you are.

"dumbass game"? Are you projecting again, Sparko?

9/11 goes back to, well, 9/11/2001 - that's nearly 17 years of stuff. No, I am NOT going to educate you on everything that has happened and been discovered during those 17 years.

So I wanted to see what you already know. That's not being a "dumbass", dumbass!

"Afraid to back up my claim"? Why would I be "afraid"? What have you been smoking?

Bluntly, at this point anyone that isn't disbelieving the official 9/11 narrative can only be one of three things: ignorant, stupid or dishonest. Of course, combinations of those three are also possible.

To not leave you empty-handed, try these:

http://www.scientistsfor911truth.org/
"The truth is that among independent scientists with no axe to grind, a large proportion of those who look into the 9/11 evidence find grounds for doubt. A few have put their reputations and careers at risk in order to speak out about that evidence, and what they see. In 2010, larger numbers of scientists have joined together and contributed their expertise to create this web site. It doesn't take a PhD to understand that the official account of the 9/11 attacks contains contradictions and physical impossibilities."

https://www.ae911truth.org/
"Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth, a nonprofit organization representing more than 3,000 architects and engineers and affiliates dedicated to establishing the truth about the events of September 11, 2001. This organization has over 14 years of accumulated evidence that contradicts the "official" version of 9/11."


The above are two of many hundreds of resources that all-but-prove beyond any shadow of reasonable doubt that the official 9/11 story is a big fat agenda-driven LIE, every bit as big a lie as is Evolutionism and Materialism. But I digress ...

I know what you think of me so perhaps if you hear it coming from others you may finally awake from the lies and delusion that you've been living under.

I've held my present position on 9-11 since 9-11. My background couldn't accept what I was witnessing (on TV) followed by the explanations that were being given. In particular, I know something about demolitions (I worked with explosives for 3 years). Time to take the Red Pill, kiddo.

Jorge

[Sparko]

"dumbass game"? Are you projecting again, Sparko?

9/11 goes back to, well, 9/11/2001 - that's nearly 17 years of stuff. No, I am NOT going to educate you on everything that has happened and been discovered during those 17 years.

So I wanted to see what you already know. That's not being a "dumbass", dumbass!

"Afraid to back up my claim"? Why would I be "afraid"? What have you been smoking?

Bluntly, at this point anyone that isn't disbelieving the official 9/11 narrative can only be one of three things: ignorant, stupid or dishonest. Of course, combinations of those three are also possible.

To not leave you empty-handed, try these:

http://www.scientistsfor911truth.org/
"The truth is that among independent scientists with no axe to grind, a large proportion of those who look into the 9/11 evidence find grounds for doubt. A few have put their reputations and careers at risk in order to speak out about that evidence, and what they see. In 2010, larger numbers of scientists have joined together and contributed their expertise to create this web site. It doesn't take a PhD to understand that the official account of the 9/11 attacks contains contradictions and physical impossibilities."

https://www.ae911truth.org/
"Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth, a nonprofit organization representing more than 3,000 architects and engineers and affiliates dedicated to establishing the truth about the events of September 11, 2001. This organization has over 14 years of accumulated evidence that contradicts the "official" version of 9/11."


The above are two of many hundreds of resources that all-but-prove beyond any shadow of reasonable doubt that the official 9/11 story is a big fat agenda-driven LIE, every bit as big a lie as is Evolutionism and Materialism. But I digress ...

I know what you think of me so perhaps if you hear it coming from others you may finally awake from the lies and delusion that you've been living under.

I've held my present position on 9-11 since 9-11. My background couldn't accept what I was witnessing (on TV) followed by the explanations that were being given. In particular, I know something about demolitions (I worked with explosives for 3 years). Time to take the Red Pill, kiddo.

Jorge

so what do you think happened in 9/11? Who was behind it and why?

[rogue06]

Wow...

Personally, I found him to be a brilliant man who's contributions to physics and astrophysics were substantial. He also was diagnosed with ALS in his early twenties and defied all odds in living with it for 50+ years. He was a man who lived life fully, despite his tremendous physical limitations. Comparing him to Charles Manson is just a tad over the top, IMO.

As for where he is now...you believe he is in hell...and I believe he simply is not anymore. Which of us is correct will be determined after this life ends. I'm content to wait until then.

Welcome to your exposure to Jorge.

The showers are to your left.

[Sparko]

Welcome to your exposure to Jorge.

The showers are to your left.

Jorge's appeal to "scientists who think 9/11 was a conspiracy" doesn't hold water once you know Jorge is a scientist. Being a scientist doesn't mean you ain't a crackpot.

[rogue06]

You should also know that I am not a dogmatic promoter of ANY position. For example, Jonathan Wells, one of the authors above, is a "Moonie" - a religious position that I strongly oppose. However, Dr. Wells is an extremely intelligent educated man and has great truths to share. He knows very well, inside and out, of many truths that obliterate Evolutionism. Truth is truth - nothing can change that.

Showing, once again, that what is of primary importance to you is whether or not someone embraces the YEC model. Everything else comes in a distant second.

[rogue06]

Jorge, you made the claim, you support what you said. I am not going to play your dumbass game. You are afraid to back up your claim, aren't you? Maybe because you know it will make you look like the loon that you are.

You are experiencing what is affectionately known around here as the Jorge Hustle JorgeHustle.gif

[Sparko]

Showing, once again, that what is of primary importance to you is whether or not someone embraces the YEC model. Everything else comes in a distant second.

I also do not believe in evolution* yet Jorge thinks I am a heretic. The primary importance is agreeing with Jorge.


*my position is that I don't believe in macro evolution, but even if it is true it doesn't affect my faith. I can accommodate theistic evolution.

[rogue06]

I also do not believe in evolution* yet Jorge thinks I am a heretic. The primary importance is agreeing with Jorge.


*my position is that I don't believe in macro evolution, but even if it is true it doesn't affect my faith. I can accommodate theistic evolution.

Which is ironic considering how macroevolution has been repeatedly observed in both the lab and in nature and how YECs are slowly but surely moving to accept it (just don't call it evolution though).

And I don't "believe" in evolution either. I followed the evidence and "accept" all of the cross correlating, corroborating, consilient positive evidence from dozens of different and independent scientific disciplines that literally amasses on a daily basis.

[Sparko]

Which is ironic considering how macroevolution has been repeatedly observed in both the lab and in nature and how YECs are slowly but surely moving to accept it (just don't call it evolution though).

My position is that none of it matters to my faith. I don't know if the Earth was created in a literal 7 day week and just looks old, or it really is 4 billion years old (I tend to believe the latter) - I don't know if God used evolution or not. None of it matters to me. Just like the various end times theories don't matter to me. Each has equally valid reasoning. What matters to me is what happened in between. That Jesus came down and died for our sins and we can be forgiven and have eternal life with God. None of that is affected by how the Earth and we were created, or how it will all end.

[rogue06]

My position is that none of it matters to my faith.

Absolutely agree 100%. Our salvation does not hinge on whether or not we accept or reject the evidence for evolution any more than it does on how we think the earth is shaped or whether the earth orbits the sun or vice versa. Unfortunately there are some in the YEC leadership who disagree, with some like Ken Ham wanting to make Christianity dependent upon how we read the opening chapters of Genesis rather than on Christ and his finished work on the cross (spurning what He said in Matthew 7:24-27).

[Sparko]

Absolutely agree 100%. Our salvation does not hinge on whether or not we accept or reject the evidence for evolution any more than it does on how we think the earth is shaped or whether the earth orbits the sun or vice versa. Unfortunately there are some in the YEC leadership who disagree, with some like Ken Ham wanting to make Christianity dependent upon how we read the opening chapters of Genesis rather than on Christ and his finished work on the cross (spurning what He said in Matthew 7:24-27).

People like Jorge.

[carpedm9587]

From your post it is clear that you are a member of the vast majority that has swallowed their lies, are 'drunk' with the Kool-Aid and have closed your mind to anything that goes against your chosen beliefs. Check - I got it. I especially loved the "...not really interested in another round of "why they cannot be trusted"". I'm still shaking my head over that little gem!

"Drink the Koolaid" is a term that dates back to the Jonestown Massacre and refers to someone who accepts a position without thought, consideration, or investigation. Since I actually did investigate, consider, and give thought to these issues, it does not apply. I also looked into the "conspiracy theories." I found them groundless. Ergo, going around this again has no interest for me. It would be akin to someone wanting to re-examine whether or not Trump was elected in 2016. The votes have been counted and recounted - he was elected - move on.

To answer your questions, I am indeed a Biblical Creationist (you call it "young-earth creationism" but that is a loaded term that I discarded long ago). As for "geocentrism and/or flat-earth movement", no, I do not subscribe to the general/common views of those positions.

I assumed you were a biblical creationist. I was more interested in your position on the age of the earth.

Kindly and gently, Michel, you are ignorant of so many things and it is this ignorance that provides you with a boundless assurance of being "right". It's also convenient to choose to remain that way by shutting out anything that threatens your chosen beliefs. We wouldn't want the TRUTH to come in and spoil that tidy little world, would we. Oh, and, don't even try to turn the tables on me here. I have hundreds of books/papers/articles from Atheists, Evolutionists (of all persuasions), Materialists, etc. here in my own home library. Unlike the usual practice of your camp, I do not censor other views.

Jorge

Yes, I am ignorant on many things - just not these. I am confident in the "rightness" of my position on these things, and simply not willing to spend any more time re-examining this when there are so many other, better, ways for me to be spending my time. We only have so many days, and I'd rather not waste them on things I consider specious at best. I'm sure you have hundreds or even thousands of articles, books, and so forth. I've probably read a fair number of them (though I am sure not all). I do not censor opposing views, as you suggest. However, as with most of us, when I've examined something to a point where I feel I can form a reasonable conclusion, I move on. If someone tells me they can prove that 1 + 1 = 57, I'm going to nod politely and say, "no thanks - I don't need to go there. They can accuse me of being close-minded all they wish - it's not going to change that..

So for JFK, 911, moon landing, evolution, the age of the earth, geocentrism, and flat earth theory - I usually say, no thanks. Climate denial is pretty close to that mark.

Michel

[Jorge]

so what do you think happened in 9/11? Who was behind it and why?

All of the evidence indicates that the 9/11 event was an event orchestrated by certain individuals in several nations including the USA, Saudi Arabia, Israel and possibly others. It is important to note that it was "by certain individuals" in those nations, not (necessarily) by the entire nation itself. Individuals belonging to groups having far-reaching agendas reach positions of power and then carry out plans to help achieve the overall agendas. Barrack Obama, for example, executed many plans aimed at destroying the United States from within using the Cloward-Piven Strategy and other means.

Why? The same for 9/11 (under Bush) as for Obama, because the United States stands as a major obstacle to attaining the "One World Order" goal. There are sound reasons and mountains of hard evidence for all of this - it is not "conspiracy nut-job theory" as some would have you believe. However, this is an immensely lengthy topic - I'll leave it here.

Jorge

[oxmixmudd]

All of the evidence indicates that the 9/11 event was an event orchestrated by certain individuals in several nations including the USA, Saudi Arabia, Israel and possibly others. It is important to note that it was "by certain individuals" in those nations, not (necessarily) by the entire nation itself. Individuals belonging to groups having far-reaching agendas reach positions of power and then carry out plans to help achieve the overall agendas. Barrack Obama, for example, executed many plans aimed at destroying the United States from within using the Cloward-Piven Strategy and other means.

Why? The same for 9/11 (under Bush) as for Obama, because the United States stands as a major obstacle to attaining the "One World Order" goal. There are sound reasons and mountains of hard evidence for all of this - it is not "conspiracy nut-job theory" as some would have you believe. However, this is an immensely lengthy topic - I'll leave it here.

Jorge

It's actually several conspiracy nut job theories. But it is sad you buy unto them. Unfortunately, it sorta proves you are not fit to evaluate the legitimacy of any theory. You are eaten up with paranoia driven it appears by a certain 'end times' escatology.

Jim