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Stephen Hawking and the UK government-run health service

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Charles View Post
    So we all know it was paid by tax payers. No one is denying that. However he did not pay for his particular treatment which was "free at the point of use". Would you really believe tax payers did not notice they paid taxes? There is no deception, it is all very easy to understand and no one is hiding anything. So it rather seems that your use of the word "deceptive" is actually deceptive.
    What does the word ‘free’ mean?
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
      When the US was reaching peak wild Obamacare-will-kill-us-all claims:
      in 2009 the US Investor’s Business Daily argued that Stephen Hawking “wouldn’t have a chance in the UK, where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless”.
      Their comments provoked laughter as they didn't seem to realize that Hawking was English and had indeed received life-saving healthcare in the UK from the NHS.

      Hawking's own response was swift:
      “I wouldn’t be here today if it were not for the NHS... I have received a large amount of high-quality treatment without which I would not have survived.”
      Was it of general policy, or because exception cos' he was already big physics guy at Cambridge?

      Demi would guess he got special treatment, unlikely they try to keep 'how are you not dead??????' ALS patient going.

      In 2017, when the UK's conservative government were unveiling their plans to privatize parts of the NHS, Hawking entered the debate:
      When the NHS was plunged into crisis amid plans to privatise the service, Hawking lashed out at the politicians he held responsible in a 2017 speech at the Royal Society of Medicine. He blamed ministers for funding cuts, pay caps and weakening the service through privatisation. He saw it all leading to a “US-style insurance system”... Hawking [argued] that the NHS was heading towards a US-style healthcare system run by private companies. [The conservative government], he pointed out, named Kaiser Permanente, the major US healthcare provider, as a model for the future budgetary arrangements of the NHS before the Commons health select committee in 2016....
      socialists: give me MORE MONEY!!!!!

      Hawking joined a lawsuit in December [2017] aimed at blocking [the conservative government's] plans for the NHS.
      AFAICT he was still part of that lawsuit four months later at the time of his death yesterday.
      So that is good thing for government???
      Last edited by demi-conservative; 03-16-2018, 04:13 AM.
      Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Raphael View Post
        Socialised Healthcare means more people can access medical care...
        No it doesn't. What it means is that more people have access to health insurance. Whether or not they can actually get health care, and whether or not it's quality care is another matter.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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        • #19
          Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
          Lots of people that continue to call it ‘free healthcare’?
          ...because it's not directly paid for. Every single person saying it's free understands this.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
            ...because it's not directly paid for. Every single person saying it's free understands this.
            Because you think that if the USA went to socialized healthcare, your taxes would remain the same and you would have the same paycheck. It won't. You will find out how much it costs when they raise your taxes 25% or more to pay for your "free" Healthcare and your paycheck gets cut down.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              Because you think that if the USA went to socialized healthcare, your taxes would remain the same and you would have the same paycheck. It won't. You will find out how much it costs when they raise your taxes 25% or more to pay for your "free" Healthcare and your paycheck gets cut down.
              Countries with socialized healthcare spend less money on healthcare per person than the US, so it will actually probably cost me less compared to what I'm spending already.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                Countries with socialized healthcare spend less money on healthcare per person than the US, so it will actually probably cost me less compared to what I'm spending already.
                They spread it out by charging the same to people who don't need the healthcare. So even if you are healthy as a horse and don't use the healthcare, guess what? you are still paying for it at the same rate as someone like me who would be using the hell out of it.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  They spread it out by charging the same to people who don't need the healthcare. So even if you are healthy as a horse and don't use the healthcare, guess what? you are still paying for it at the same rate as someone like me who would be using the hell out of it.
                  But the point was the price is still lower per person. You just stated what we all knew already with no argument for or against it.
                  "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                    Countries with socialized healthcare spend less money on healthcare per person than the US, so it will actually probably cost me less compared to what I'm spending already.
                    They might spend less money, but are they getting the same quality of care? Many studies I've read say no, and fully government-run healthcare in America -- i.e. VA hospitals -- have been an unmitigated disaster.

                    And how much money is being peeled off by politicians as it passes through their hands on its way to the healthcare provider? What percentage of the average citizen's taxes are really spent on their healthcare?
                    Last edited by Mountain Man; 03-16-2018, 01:44 PM.
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Charles View Post
                      But the point was the price is still lower per person. You just stated what we all knew already with no argument for or against it.
                      No, it would be lower for someone older and with more health problems like me, but higher for some young millennial with perfect health who doesn't need any healthcare. Dozens of them would be shelling out just to cover the medical expenses of my tired old carcass.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        No, it would be lower for someone older and with more health problems like me, but higher for some young millennial with perfect health who doesn't need any healthcare. Dozens of them would be shelling out just to cover the medical expenses of my tired old carcass.
                        You are just repeating what we all know and you are forgetting once again the point that the price per person on average is lower.
                        "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          And how much money is being peeled off by politicians as it passes through their hands on its way to the healthcare provider? What percentage of the average citizen's taxes are really spent on their healthcare?
                          Do you have any numbers? If not then it seems your insinuations are not very well founded.
                          "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Charles View Post
                            You are just repeating what we all know and you are forgetting once again the point that the price per person on average is lower.
                            No it isn't when someone young can get by with a catastrophic healthcare insurance plan a lot cheaper than someone who is older and at higher risk. They might only need to buy a high deductible healthcare plan for a less than $100/month where someone like me would need to by a healthcare plane at $300/month. But on social medicine, both of us would be paying $200/month (just example costs for comparison) - so since there are probably a lot more young people out there who are paying more than they need to in order to cover the costs of older folks like me, the average cost per person is higher than if those same people were buying cheaper healthcare themselves.

                            At this point in my life I am all for government run healthcare. I will be on it in less than 10 years anyway. But it is not fair to the young people to have to foot the bill for the older folks and the sick folks. I wonder how many young people were paying more than they needed to just to keep Stephen Hawking alive. I bet his healthcare was expensive.
                            Last edited by Sparko; 03-16-2018, 02:33 PM.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              [...]I wonder how many young people were paying more than they needed to just to keep Stephen Hawking alive. I bet his healthcare was expensive.
                              "just to keep Stephen Hawking alive"............................................ .................................................. .................................................. .................................
                              "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Charles View Post
                                "just to keep Stephen Hawking alive".........


                                What's the matter? Don't you believe in evolution? Survival of the fittest? Euthanasia for people who will have a horrible quality of life (i.e. aborting children with birth defects and deformities?)
                                Last edited by Sparko; 03-16-2018, 02:57 PM.

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