A thought about our significance

[carpedm9587]

So your assignment, CP, is to go back and reread your posts - and find the pitchforks...

[Cow Poke]

So your assignment, CP, is to go back and reread your posts - and find the pitchforks...

Lemme try to work myself up into a dither first, and maybe if I squint really hard and pretend, and try to turn on "triggered" mode.....

OR, you could step up to the plate and actually try to produce one or two!

[carpedm9587]

Lemme try to work myself up into a dither first, and maybe if I squint really hard and pretend, and try to turn on "triggered" mode.....

OR, you could step up to the plate and actually try to produce one or two!

Nah. My experience is that telling someone what their pitchforks are just gets a kneejerk response. When people find their own - it's far more powerful. I'll leave you to it.


Meanwhile, it is my hope that someday the rancor will reduce and people on both sides will find the importance of listening to the other side and finding common solutions. Until then, as long as the two sides stay entrenched, that probably won't happen. And, as you noted, babies will continue to die...

[Cow Poke]

Nah. My experience is that telling someone what their pitchforks are just gets a kneejerk response. When people find their own - it's far more powerful. I'll leave you to it.

Yeah, you're triggered.

There are no pitchforks - just two old guys having a discussion.... but you'll see what you want to see.

This is like your "irony" statement - then refusing to elaborate on that. No wonder communication with you is so trying!

[carpedm9587]

Yeah, you're triggered.

There are no pitchforks - just two old guys having a discussion.... but you'll see what you want to see.

The triggered comment was about me? I thought you were making a comment about yourself.

Hmm..I don't think I'm triggered. I was simply putting forth a point of view I've expressed several times. If I had to describe how I'm feeling, "tired" would be a better description. But I'll spend some time on it. I suppose I could be triggered and not be aware of it...THAT has certainly happened before.

[Just Passing Through]

Suppose there is a god. If an infinite god desired to create a finite creature to bring into fellowship with him, just how large was he supposed to make that creature? It seems to me that he made us pretty close to the very center, half way (logarithmically speaking) between the very smallest subatomic particles and the very largest universal structures. He could have made both ranges infinite, but he chose to cap the one max with relativity and speed of light limits, and the other max, the minimum, with the fuzziness of quantum mechanics and Heisenberg uncertainty to keep us finite beings from viewing the infinite. He set both extremes so far from us, not to make us feel insignificant, but to impress on us the surpassing nature of God who created all things.
So if our smallness compared with the universe makes us so extraordinarily insignificant, does our hugeness compared to the other extreme make us just as extraordinarily significant?

[seer]

So if our smallness compared with the universe makes us so extraordinarily insignificant, does our hugeness compared to the other extreme make us just as extraordinarily significant?

that ^

[carpedm9587]

Suppose there is a god. If an infinite god desired to create a finite creature to bring into fellowship with him, just how large was he supposed to make that creature? It seems to me that he made us pretty close to the very center, half way (logarithmically speaking) between the very smallest subatomic particles and the very largest universal structures. He could have made both ranges infinite, but he chose to cap the one max with relativity and speed of light limits, and the other max, the minimum, with the fuzziness of quantum mechanics and Heisenberg uncertainty to keep us finite beings from viewing the infinite. He set both extremes so far from us, not to make us feel insignificant, but to impress on us the surpassing nature of God who created all things.
So if our smallness compared with the universe makes us so extraordinarily insignificant, does our hugeness compared to the other extreme make us just as extraordinarily significant?

Also a nuanced response! Thanks!

My initial thought is this: If such an allpowerful being existed - why would it need to create beings like us at all? And why would this universe have a beginning in time? And why would we humans live on a planet that had a beginning in time? Has this being been eternally creating...and this is just the latest version? If so, why are all the books about this being focus on this universal reality? I often hear people note that the specific combination of circumstances that would have to occur for this universe to be as it is make it highly unlikely to have happened without a god. Isn't that also true WITH a god?

Anyway - I should get back to work - I've blown off most of the afternoon...

[Sparko]

Suppose there is a god. If an infinite god desired to create a finite creature to bring into fellowship with him, just how large was he supposed to make that creature? It seems to me that he made us pretty close to the very center, half way (logarithmically speaking) between the very smallest subatomic particles and the very largest universal structures. He could have made both ranges infinite, but he chose to cap the one max with relativity and speed of light limits, and the other max, the minimum, with the fuzziness of quantum mechanics and Heisenberg uncertainty to keep us finite beings from viewing the infinite. He set both extremes so far from us, not to make us feel insignificant, but to impress on us the surpassing nature of God who created all things.
So if our smallness compared with the universe makes us so extraordinarily insignificant, does our hugeness compared to the other extreme make us just as extraordinarily significant?

Good point. and just imagine how boring this creation would be for us if he made it smaller.

[Just Passing Through]

My initial thought is this: If such an allpowerful being existed - why would it need to create beings like us at all? And why would this universe have a beginning in time? And why would we humans live on a planet that had a beginning in time? Has this being been eternally creating...and this is just the latest version? If so, why are all the books about this being focus on this universal reality? I often hear people note that the specific combination of circumstances that would have to occur for this universe to be as it is make it highly unlikely to have happened without a god. Isn't that also true WITH a god?

[JimL]

Actually, I have voiced this position several times, CP. Most religions have an intrinsic arrogance, because they tend to see the god of all that is (which is pretty immense) as somehow particularly focused/concerned about one species on one planet in one galaxy amongst tens of billions of galaxies. The usual response to this is gratitude that this god so loved the world as to take this kind of interest (see Rogue's response below for an example).

Humanity in general has a very anthropocentric point of view. It's probably perfectyl understandable, given that each of us views the universe from the perspective of ourselves. IOW, we see the universe from the perspective of ourselves, putting "me" at the center of all our observations. Little wonder that we used to believe the planet we live on was at the center of everything. Humanity has successfully (mostly) abandoned geocentrism - but I am not sure that we have yet abandoned egocentrism. We see it in our religions, but we also see it in our political systems, our ecnomic systems, etc.

As a species - we're pretty young.

I'm not sure why you think this reveals the "real me" more less than anything else I've posted. Unlike Jim, I think religions served a purpose, continue to do so, and will do so for a little while yet.

Religions obviously served a purpose carpe, that's why we created them. Don't know where you got the idea that I didn't think religions served a purpose.

[JimL]

I really don't want to go down this road again, but seriously, if every moment that ever was or ever will be is "now" for god, then what we call time, and what we call free will, is an illusion. That's not christian, and never has a christian, or anyone else for that matter, given a logical explanation for the conflict. Perhaps you can do it?

[carpedm9587]

Religions obviously served a purpose carpe, that's why we created them. Don't know where you got the idea that I didn't think religions served a purpose.

It might have something to do with your continuously denigrating tone...?

[JimL]

It might have something to do with your continuously denigrating tone...?

Could be.

[Sparko]

I really don't want to go down this road again, but seriously, if every moment that ever was or ever will be is "now" for god, then what we call time, and what we call free will, is an illusion. That's not christian, and never has a christian, or anyone else for that matter, given a logical explanation for the conflict. Perhaps you can do it?

Just because you can't understand something does that make it untrue? We have tried to explain it to you before but it is like trying to explain algebra to a kindergartner.