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A thought about our significance

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  • A thought about our significance

    Science suggests that that are an estimated 10 billion galazies in the universe, of which our galazy is only one. If they all have the estimated 100 billiion stars that exist in our universe, and if the average life of a star is 10 billion years, this suggests that 100 billion stars end their lives in this universe every year. This suggests that 281 milliion stars end their existence each day, which is 11.7 million starts per hour, 195.6 thousand per miniute, and 3,260 stars end their lives every second of every day of every year.

    There are an estimated 7.6 billion humans on earth, and we average a 79 year lifespan. This means 96.2 milliion people die per year, 263,6K die per day, 11K die per hour, 183 die per minute, and 3.05 die every second of every day.

    3260 stars per second....
    3.05 humans per second...

    A star has an enormous average power output. The power output of the average human is on the order of a few D-cell batteries.

    But we have to audicity to consider ourselves "significant," and suggest that a god of the universe (if it exists) is singularly focused on our salvation?

    I would chalk that up to human arrogance - and a need to be significant.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  • #2
    It's understandable that you would see it this way.

    If, indeed, however, God was powerful enough to have created all that is, He is quite impressively capable of caring about every aspect of each individual's life.

    If He does not exist, it doesn't matter.

    On 'the need to be significant', the NT actually teaches us to think of others more highly than ourselves.



    Note: As OP, why not impose your "be nice or get out" requirement for posting here?
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #3
      Stars can't think or feel. We can.
      Curiosity never hurt anyone. It was stupidity that killed the cat.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        It's understandable that you would see it this way.

        If, indeed, however, God was powerful enough to have created all that is, He is quite impressively capable of caring about every aspect of each individual's life.

        If He does not exist, it doesn't matter.

        On 'the need to be significant', the NT actually teaches us to think of others more highly than ourselves.

        Note: As OP, why not impose your "be nice or get out" requirement for posting here?
        This is not a place where I think people are likely to get cantankerous. Guns...yes. The meaning of life...probably not.

        Doesn't THAT say something....
        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by QuantaFille View Post
          Stars can't think or feel. We can.
          And that means....?
          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
            Science suggests that that are an estimated 10 billion galazies in the universe, of which our galazy is only one. If they all have the estimated 100 billiion stars that exist in our universe, and if the average life of a star is 10 billion years, this suggests that 100 billion stars end their lives in this universe every year. This suggests that 281 milliion stars end their existence each day, which is 11.7 million starts per hour, 195.6 thousand per miniute, and 3,260 stars end their lives every second of every day of every year.

            There are an estimated 7.6 billion humans on earth, and we average a 79 year lifespan. This means 96.2 milliion people die per year, 263,6K die per day, 11K die per hour, 183 die per minute, and 3.05 die every second of every day.

            3260 stars per second....
            3.05 humans per second...

            A star has an enormous average power output. The power output of the average human is on the order of a few D-cell batteries.

            But we have to audicity to consider ourselves "significant," and suggest that a god of the universe (if it exists) is singularly focused on our salvation?

            I would chalk that up to human arrogance - and a need to be significant.
            Perhaps you can clarify here just a bit. How many stars are there that could possibly be in need of salvation?

            Your description is nothing more than a reminder that we are essentially insignificant specks in comparison to God and His creation.

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              Perhaps you can clarify here just a bit. How many stars are there that could possibly be in need of salvation?

              Your description is nothing more than a reminder that we are essentially insignificant specks in comparison to God and His creation.
              Which makes it all that more marvelous that He cares about us.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                Which makes it all that more marvelous that He cares about us.
                And I'm so very thankful that He does.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  Perhaps you can clarify here just a bit. How many stars are there that could possibly be in need of salvation?

                  Your description is nothing more than a reminder that we are essentially insignificant specks in comparison to God and His creation.
                  I don't think ANY of us are "in need of salvation."

                  And yes - my description is a reminder that, in this vast cosmos, we are only as sgnificant as we think we are. And to think that the god of all of this is somehow narrowly focused on our "salvation," to the point of sacrificing himself/itself/herself in human form, seems to me to a) be an extension of the sacrificial lamb theme of MANY religions, and b) be the height of human arrogance. The god of ALL the universe is somehow consumed with the status of an inconsequential species on a backwater planet?

                  Really?
                  The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                  I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                    ...And to think that the god of all of this is somehow narrowly focused on our "salvation," to the point of sacrificing himself/itself/herself in human form...
                    This seems unusually petty of you - this is the kind of asinine crap I'd expect from JimL. Perhaps the "real you" continues to emerge?
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                      Science suggests that that are an estimated 10 billion galaxies in the universe, of which our galaxy is only one. If they all have the estimated 100 billion stars that exist in our universe, and if the average life of a star is 10 billion years, this suggests that 100 billion stars end their lives in this universe every year. This suggests that 281 million stars end their existence each day, which is 11.7 million starts per hour, 195.6 thousand per minute, and 3,260 stars end their lives every second of every day of every year.

                      There are an estimated 7.6 billion humans on earth, and we average a 79[-]year lifespan. This means 96.2 million people die per year, 263,6K die per day, 11K die per hour, 183 die per minute, and 3.05 die every second of every day.

                      3260 stars per second…
                      3.05 humans per second…

                      A star has an enormous average power output. The power output of the average human is on the order of a few D-cell batteries.

                      But we have to audicity [sic] to consider ourselves "significant," and suggest that a god of the universe (if it exists) is singularly focused on our salvation?

                      I would chalk that up to human arrogance [—] and a need to be significant.
                      I would not contest that humans are notoriously prideful creatures. Scripturally, pride is not encouraged. God is in opposition to the haughty, but places his favour upon the humble.1 The value of a human, a creature, is determined by God, who is the the Creator. Humans may under- or overestimate their importance. Certainly we can take no credit for our existence or the existence of any other thing. In the material universe, human beings are the only creatures to have been endowed with moral responsibility. We are culpable for the thoughts that we choose to entertain, the words we use, and the works we do.

                      According to a Christian world view, humans are significant in that we are the works of God’s hands. We owe our existence, all that we are and have, to God, the Creator of all. It is true that our lives are fleeting.2 The promise of the good news is that those who are in Christ Jesus, God’s one, unique Son, will be granted eternal life. Death in all its forms finds its origin in sin. Apart from sin, there would be no alienation, sickness, or suffering. As it is, however, the world in which we inhabit is under a divine curse. This is the judgement that has been brought about as a result of departing from God and deciding for ourselves what is right and wrong, what is true and false, what is important and what is not.

                      A Judgement Day is coming where all will be obligated to give an account for their lives. All of the secrets of people’s hearts will be divulged on that Day. What had been hidden will be brought to the light. What this means is what you and I do here and now in this present age does matter. Please do not take refuge in the delusion that human existence is of no real importance.


                      Notes

                      1. See Proverbs 3.34 LXX; James 4.6; 1 Peter 5.5.
                      2. See Psalm 144.4; Isaiah 40.6; James 4.14; 1 Peter 1.24.
                      For Neo-Remonstration (Arminian/Remonstrant ruminations): <https://theremonstrant.blogspot.com>

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        What's this doing in Natural Science?
                        "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          This seems unusually petty of you - this is the kind of asinine crap I'd expect from JimL. Perhaps the "real you" continues to emerge?
                          Actually, I have voiced this position several times, CP. Most religions have an intrinsic arrogance, because they tend to see the god of all that is (which is pretty immense) as somehow particularly focused/concerned about one species on one planet in one galaxy amongst tens of billions of galaxies. The usual response to this is gratitude that this god so loved the world as to take this kind of interest (see Rogue's response below for an example).

                          Humanity in general has a very anthropocentric point of view. It's probably perfectyl understandable, given that each of us views the universe from the perspective of ourselves. IOW, we see the universe from the perspective of ourselves, putting "me" at the center of all our observations. Little wonder that we used to believe the planet we live on was at the center of everything. Humanity has successfully (mostly) abandoned geocentrism - but I am not sure that we have yet abandoned egocentrism. We see it in our religions, but we also see it in our political systems, our ecnomic systems, etc.

                          As a species - we're pretty young.

                          I'm not sure why you think this reveals the "real me" more less than anything else I've posted. Unlike Jim, I think religions served a purpose, continue to do so, and will do so for a little while yet.
                          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by The Remonstrant View Post
                            I would not contest that humans are notoriously prideful creatures. Scripturally, pride is not encouraged. God is in opposition to the haughty, but places his favour upon the humble.1 The value of a human, a creature, is determined by God, who is the the Creator. Humans may under- or overestimate their importance. Certainly we can take no credit for our existence or the existence of any other thing. In the material universe, human beings are the only creatures to have been endowed with moral responsibility. We are culpable for the thoughts that we choose to entertain, the words we use, and the works we do.

                            According to a Christian world view, humans are significant in that we are the works of God’s hands. We owe our existence, all that we are and have, to God, the Creator of all. It is true that our lives are fleeting.2 The promise of the good news is that those who are in Christ Jesus, God’s one, unique Son, will be granted eternal life. Death in all its forms finds its origin in sin. Apart from sin, there would be no alienation, sickness, or suffering. As it is, however, the world in which we inhabit is under a divine curse. This is the judgement that has been brought about as a result of departing from God and deciding for ourselves what is right and wrong, what is true and false, what is important and what is not.

                            A Judgement Day is coming where all will be obligated to give an account for their lives. All of the secrets of people’s hearts will be divulged on that Day. What had been hidden will be brought to the light. What this means is what you and I do here and now in this present age does matter. Please do not take refuge in the delusion that human existence is of no real importance.


                            Notes

                            1. See Proverbs 3.34 LXX; James 4.6; 1 Peter 5.5.
                            2. See Psalm 144.4; Isaiah 40.6; James 4.14; 1 Peter 1.24.
                            I'm familiar with all of this theology, Rem. It fits very well with the observation I made in the OP. Christianity blends the arrogance of believing god is uniquely concerned with humanity with the humility of seeing oneself as completely subject to this god. It is an odd/interesting mix. I think, perhaps, the wide success of Christianity can be found in the message that all one need do is confess one's sins, and accept god as their lord and savior, and they are made new and their sins/ills are forgiven. For people struggling with conscience, illness, or other travail - it is a psychologically powerful message. Pain can be a significant motivator.
                            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
                              What's this doing in Natural Science?
                              Hmm... I put it there initially because of the astronomical basis of the OP. My thought was that the nature of the universe can expose a bit of human arrogance. That being siad, perhaps it belongs in the psychology forum instead?

                              I leave it to the mods to relocate it where it seems most appropriate.
                              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                              Comment

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