Originally posted by Sparko
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A thought about our significance
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostJust because you can't understand something does that make it untrue? We have tried to explain it to you before but it is like trying to explain algebra to a kindergartner.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostOr like a chicken watching a card trick - the chicken sees something's going on, but has absolutely no clue whatsoever.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostWell, actually I don't recall you ever chiming in on this topic....The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by The Remonstrant View PostI would not contest that humans are notoriously prideful creatures. Scripturally, pride is not encouraged. God is in opposition to the haughty, but places his favour upon the humble.12Notes
1. See Proverbs 3.34 LXX; James 4.6; 1 Peter 5.5.
2. See Psalm 144.4; Isaiah 40.6; James 4.14; 1 Peter 1.24.Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostI'm familiar with all of this theology, Rem.
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post[1] It fits very well with the observation I made in the OP. Christianity blends the arrogance of believing god is uniquely concerned with humanity with the humility of seeing oneself as completely subject to this god. It is an odd/interesting mix. [2] I think, perhaps, the wide success of Christianity can be found in the message that all one need do is confess one's sins, and accept god as their lord and savior, and they are made new and their sins/ills are forgiven. [3]For Neo-Remonstration (Arminian/Remonstrant ruminations): <https://theremonstrant.blogspot.com>
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Originally posted by The Remonstrant View PostI am not surprised. In the light of your opening post, I do believe that it was worth laying down foundational Christian beliefs in this discussion, though.
1. Supposing that the God of Christian theism does exist, it is not prideful to believe in him or his word; rather, it is prideful to disbelieve in him and go about living in the world he created as if he does not exist.
From the few nuanced responses I've received, I've come to realize my original post is most definitely from the perspective of this god NOT existing. My Christian brain cells are reasonably well atrophied. From the perspective of this god not existing, the belief appears fairly arrogant. From the perspective of it existing, less so.
Again - you are right that my post was very over-simplified. It was not intended to suggest that cognitive acceptance was all that was required. However, for a person who has reached the nadir of their experience, and message that they can "wipe the slate clean and begin again," however, much that demands of them going forward, is a powerful and often welcome message. Non-theistic worldviews have essentially nothing to compare, psychologically. That was the intent of my comment. I apologize if it came across sounding like accepting Christianity was a simple cognitive exercise. Having lived that life for a couple of decades (a long time ago), I know it is not.
Originally posted by The Remonstrant View Post3. For persons who struggle with responsibility and/or finding a subjective purpose for carrying on with existence, perhaps atheism provides the answer that there really is no solution(?). Do not limit your psychologising to persons who adhere to Christian theism; apply it to your atheistic (non-)beliefs as well.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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It might also be what is incomprehensibly random and meaningless from our exceedingly limited perspective, is absolutely clear from His.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostJust because you can't understand something does that make it untrue? We have tried to explain it to you before but it is like trying to explain algebra to a kindergartner.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostScience suggests that that are an estimated 10 billion galazies in the universe, of which our galazy is only one. If they all have the estimated 100 billiion stars that exist in our universe, and if the average life of a star is 10 billion years, this suggests that 100 billion stars end their lives in this universe every year. This suggests that 281 milliion stars end their existence each day, which is 11.7 million starts per hour, 195.6 thousand per miniute, and 3,260 stars end their lives every second of every day of every year.
There are an estimated 7.6 billion humans on earth, and we average a 79 year lifespan. This means 96.2 milliion people die per year, 263,6K die per day, 11K die per hour, 183 die per minute, and 3.05 die every second of every day.
3260 stars per second....
3.05 humans per second...
A star has an enormous average power output. The power output of the average human is on the order of a few D-cell batteries.
But we have to audicity to consider ourselves "significant," and suggest that a god of the universe (if it exists) is singularly focused on our salvation?
I would chalk that up to human arrogance - and a need to be significant.Originally posted by The Remonstrant View PostI would not contest that humans are notoriously prideful creatures. Scripturally, pride is not encouraged. God is in opposition to the haughty, but places his favour upon the humble.12Notes
1. See Proverbs 3.34 LXX; James 4.6; 1 Peter 5.5.
2. See Psalm 144.4; Isaiah 40.6; James 4.14; 1 Peter 1.24.Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post[1] I'm familiar with all of this theology, Rem. It fits very well with the observation I made in the OP. Christianity blends the arrogance of believing god is uniquely concerned with humanity with the humility of seeing oneself as completely subject to this god. It is an odd/interesting mix. [2] I think, perhaps, the wide success of Christianity can be found in the message that all one need do is confess one's sins, and accept god as their lord and savior, and they are made new and their sins/ills are forgiven. [3]Originally posted by The Remonstrant View Post1. Supposing that the God of Christian theism does exist, it is not prideful to believe in him or his word; rather, it is prideful to disbelieve in him and go about living in the world he created as if he does not exist.Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostFrom the few nuanced responses I've received, I've come to realize my original post is most definitely from the perspective of this god NOT existing. My Christian brain cells are reasonably well atrophied. From the perspective of this god not existing, the belief appears fairly arrogant. From the perspective of it existing, less so.
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostI apologize if it came across sounding like accepting Christianity was a simple cognitive exercise. Having lived that life for a couple of decades (a long time ago), I know it is not. [emphasis added]
Originally posted by The Remonstrant View Post3. For persons who struggle with responsibility and/or finding a subjective purpose for carrying on with existence, perhaps atheism provides the answer that there really is no solution(?). Do not limit your psychologising to persons who adhere to Christian theism; apply it to your atheistic (non-)beliefs as well.For Neo-Remonstration (Arminian/Remonstrant ruminations): <https://theremonstrant.blogspot.com>
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"What if" is not an explanation of a logical how. Your "what if" is a similar viewpoint, though without explanation, put forth by many believers, but the one thing you all seem to forget is that the creation out of which all of time exist was created by god who exists outside of it. If god created it, and if from gods perspective it all exists, whether it exists in reality or in gods mind as knowledge, then change, ergo free will, is logically impossible.
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostIt might also be what is incomprehensibly random and meaningless from our exceedingly limited perspective, is absolutely clear from His.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostIf god created it, and if from gods perspective it all exists, whether it exists in reality or in gods mind as knowledge, then change, ergo free will, is logically impossible.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostJimL is providing an example of the Argument from Incredulity logical fallacy. Just because one can not imagine how "X" can be true does not mean "X" is therefore false. It may only mean that you don't have sufficient data, that you lack imagination or a host of other possibilities.
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