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Uber self-driving car kills Arizona woman

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  • Uber self-driving car kills Arizona woman

    Uber self-driving car kills Arizona woman

    Self driving vehicles - what could POSSIBLY go wrong?

    Watch for litigation city.

    SAN FRANCISCO — An Uber self-driving car hit and killed a woman in Tempe, Ariz., Sunday night, according to media reports.

    The Uber car was in self-driving mode when the accident occurred, but had a safety driver at the wheel as is the norm when testing autonomous vehicles.

    The woman, who has not been named, was crossing outside the designated crosswalk at about 10 p.m. when she was hit, police said.

    Sgt. Ronald Elcock, a Tempe police spokesman, confirmed to the USA TODAY Network that the car was in autonomous mode with a driver behind the wheel when it hit the pedestrian. There were no passengers in the car at the time.

    Uber issued a statement saying that it was "fully cooperating with local authorities." The ride-hailing company has temporarily halted its self-driving tests in wake of the incident in Pittsburgh, San Francisco and Toronto, as is its policy following any accident.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

  • #2
    For some irrational reason, it seems worse when a self-driving car kills someone than when the car is being operated by another human. Maybe it's because there is no one who can be held directly accountable.
    Last edited by Mountain Man; 03-19-2018, 02:40 PM.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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    • #3
      The real controversy will come when a self-driving car has to make the decision to choose who to run over if it can't avoid everyone, or whether to save its passengers or someone else. If it is about to run over a woman with a baby, does it run her over, or crash into a telephone pole killing its passengers?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        The real controversy will come when a self-driving car has to make the decision to choose who to run over if it can't avoid everyone, or whether to save its passengers or someone else. If it is about to run over a woman with a baby, does it run her over, or crash into a telephone pole killing its passengers?
        It wouldn't know it's about to run over a woman with a baby; it would see obstacle 1 and obstacle 2.
        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          The real controversy will come when a self-driving car has to make the decision to choose who to run over if it can't avoid everyone, or whether to save its passengers or someone else. If it is about to run over a woman with a baby, does it run her over, or crash into a telephone pole killing its passengers?
          There's also the fact that almost nobody wants to buy a self-driving car that they know could make the decision to kill them.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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          • #6
            Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
            It wouldn't know it's about to run over a woman with a baby; it would see obstacle 1 and obstacle 2.
            It would have to have AI to determine if an obstacle was a person or not. There are a lot of decisions it has to make to just navigate an intersection. It would have to recognize people as people. That is one of the biggest problems in self-driving vehicles, how to program in moral judgments.

            https://www.technologyreview.com/s/5...ammed-to-kill/

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              The real controversy will come when a self-driving car has to make the decision to choose who to run over if it can't avoid everyone, or whether to save its passengers or someone else. If it is about to run over a woman with a baby, does it run her over, or crash into a telephone pole killing its passengers?
              Where was that discussion recently -- about the AI involved which would cause the car to kill (if unavoidable) the least number of humans possible, including the driver?


              ETA: Asked and answered, your honor!
              Last edited by Cow Poke; 03-19-2018, 03:17 PM.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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              • #8
                Wait until people start hacking these cars' computers... combine that with the car being able to support facial recognition.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  That is one of the biggest problems in self-driving vehicles, how to program in moral judgments.
                  The technical hurdle of programming computers to make these sorts of judgments will be relatively easy. I think the real fight will come in trying to decide whose ethical framework we should use.
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    That is one of the biggest problems in self-driving vehicles, how to program in moral judgments.
                    LOL.

                    There are a lot of technical problems with regard to the creation of self-driving vehicles that the developers are working to overcome. Yet somehow you've managed to select something from completely left of field that isn't a problem at all and claim it's one of the biggest problems.

                    The only thing that seriously concerns me about self-driving cars is the possibility of a bad actor (foreign government, terrorist group etc) putting something nasty in the programming (e.g. via a virus or sabotage at the production facility) that at a specific time causes all self-driving cars in a country / world to try and kill everyone simultaneously by causing car crashes throughout the country/world. It's an unprecedented attack vector.
                    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      Self driving vehicles - what could POSSIBLY go wrong?
                      Well obviously lots. But the fact of the matter is that humans make pretty terrible drivers - we have periods of inattention, can only look in one direction at once, don't always make perfect decisions - and car crashes are a major cause of death. Theoretically a well-created computer program could function pretty much flawlessly and reduce the road toll to zero or almost zero, and thus save many many lives.

                      Watch for litigation city.
                      Definitely.

                      An Uber self-driving car hit and killed a woman in Tempe, Ariz.
                      How many pedestrians have been hit and killed by human drivers in the time since this incident I wonder?
                      "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                      "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                      "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        The real controversy will come when a self-driving car has to make the decision to choose who to run over if it can't avoid everyone, or whether to save its passengers or someone else. If it is about to run over a woman with a baby, does it run her over, or crash into a telephone pole killing its passengers?
                        Maybe Uber can finally solve the trolley problem.
                        Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                        MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                        MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                        seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          The only thing that seriously concerns me about self-driving cars is the possibility of a bad actor (foreign government, terrorist group etc) putting something nasty in the programming (e.g. via a virus or sabotage at the production facility) that at a specific time causes all self-driving cars in a country / world to try and kill everyone simultaneously by causing car crashes throughout the country/world. It's an unprecedented attack vector.
                          It's not all that unprecedented.
                          Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                          MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                          MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                          seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Roy View Post
                            Maybe Uber can finally solve the trolley problem.
                            It's been solved already:

                            "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                            "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                            "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              The technical hurdle of programming computers to make these sorts of judgments will be relatively easy. I think the real fight will come in trying to decide whose ethical framework we should use.
                              There is a web site that has been set up to test what people think a self-driving car should do in various no win situations. You can play if you wish. Some of them are very difficult.

                              http://moralmachine.mit.edu/

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