Originally posted by seer
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Marlon Bundo
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Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by seer View PostYou know I'm right, the fact is your "enlighten" moral view is merely the result of the timing and place of your birth.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostThe difference, of course, is that all of the people/acts you listed are people doing harm to other people. The homosexual is simly a person who has fallen in love with someone you don't think they should love - based on the nature of what exists between their legs - which is essentially no different than making that judgment on the basis of the color of their skin. In both cases, the judgment is being based on the basis of a physical trait.
It is bigotry, Seer. Nothing less. I understand the roots of this bigotry in history and religion, but that does not change it's nature. I don't hate you for it. I used to be angry about it, when that view held sway and there was more overt discrimination against these people. That is changing, and now I find myself more feeling sorry for people who can harbor such...beliefs (for lack of a better word).
But you also find yourself hoisted by your own petard, because it could just easily be argued that "The pedophile is simply a person who has fallen in love with someone you don't think they should love - based on the arbitrary notion of 'age of consent' - which is essentially no different than making that judgment on the basis of the color of their skin." The winds of society are slowly shifting on this point, and whatever "moral high-ground" you think you're standing on is eroding under your own feet. I just wonder how you're going to respond when the pedophiles inevitably come at you with the exact same arguments you use to defend the abominable practice of homosexuality.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Roy View PostAFAICT seer and carped were born in the same country, and are about the same age.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by seer View PostAnd that has moral weight why?
Originally posted by seer View PostYou know I'm right, the fact is your "enlighten" moral view is merely the result of the timing and place of your birth.
Originally posted by seer View PostYeah, you are speaking of a small minority. And if the true Muslims got a hold of them they would throw them off buildings too...
And yes - the percentage of Muslims that are pro-LGBTQ is not a dominant percentage yet, which is also true of Christianity. But it is apparently ahead of evangelical Christianity here in America, as the articles I linked to show.
Originally posted by seer View PostRight, but there really is no progress. It is like saying most/more people agreeing with me that brussel sprouts are horrible is progress...
Originally posted by seer View PostWhose general social trends? Like what we find in the Muslim world?The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostThe fact is that, unlike you, I am willing to recognize and acknowledge sin for what it is, so you have no moral standing from which to judge me.
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostAnd before you accuse me of hypocrisy, you should note that I have not judged you. I've merely quoted what the Word of God says about those who are spiritually blind and enamored by sin.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by seer View PostThank you sharing your opinion Carp... BTW - skin color is not behavior...
Originally posted by seer View PostLOL, so now you are judging me on my religious beliefs! Bigots, sodomites - it's all the same. Who cares...The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostActually - I was not expecting people here to approve or agree, OBP. But I thought I would provide both links so people could support whichever charity they see fit. And a book about homosexuality is deliberate - but only offensive to those who choose to be offended. It is, after all, just about two critters who love each other wanting to be together.
Frankly, I'm beginning to prefer Starlight's flamboyant opposition to your well-meaning non-confrontational habitual redefinition of words. I know where he stands on things. You, not so much.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostBull. Even if we remove religion from the equation, there is no case to be made for homosexuality based on the simple fact of biology: males and females are biologically compatible in a way that two males and two females are not. It is, in a word, unnatural.
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostBut you also find yourself hoisted by your own petard, because it could just easily be argued that "The pedophile is simply a person who has fallen in love with someone you don't think they should love - based on the arbitrary notion of 'age of consent' - which is essentially no different than making that judgment on the basis of the color of their skin." The winds of society are slowly shifting on this point, and whatever "moral high-ground" you think you're standing on is eroding under your own feet. I just wonder how you're going to respond when the pedophiles inevitably come at you with the exact same arguments you use to defend the abominable practice of homosexuality.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostYou bought five copies of the "protest" book, then thought about buying the original too.
Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostYou may drop your pretense of neutrality.
Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostYou may drop your pretense that the book was not intended to be offensive, too;
Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostPence is well-known for his stance against homosexuality - therefore writing a book wherein his pet is imagined to be homosexual cannot be anything but offensive.
Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostYour bland definition of homosexual "love" can apply equally well to pedophilia, adultery, incest.... and you claim to have the moral high ground.
Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostFrankly, I'm beginning to prefer Starlight's flamboyant opposition to your well-meaning non-confrontational habitual redefinition of words. I know where he stands on things. You, not so much.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostGiven the number of instances of homosexuality throughout the animal kingdom - where evolution is hard at work - your use of "unnatural" is simply uninformed. And if procreation were the only reason for two people to be together, then we have a serious problem with a LOT of marriages.
It's also curious to me that you imply that we should derive our sense of morality from the animals. In that case, is it OK to kill sexual rivals in the interest of ensuring that it's one's own genes that are passed on? After all, it happens all the time throughout the animal kingdom.
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostI am not hoisted in the least. Pedophelia is defined as sexual activity between a mature human being and an immature one. Different cultures set that bound everywhere, but the basis of the proscription is the inability of the child to make decisions and handle the sexual encounter. You're comparing apples to oranges. And that is exactly what my response will be to them, should they come in my direction. No problem.
Your "moral high-ground" is nothing but a puddle of Jell-O that allows you to slip and slide any way that your personal desires and current cultural norms demand.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostOdd question. It has moral weight because it is the moral code I have derived based on what I value.
I will leave you to your opinion, Seer. As I've said before - this type of "what if" is pointless. A waste of time.
Calling extremist Muslims "true" Muslims displays your ignorance and your bigotry towards Islam. Statistically, extremists are a small fraction of the Islamic population, even in Islamic countries. They do tend to have power, so they set the laws in many of these countries. But worldwide, that is not true.
And yes - the percentage of Muslims that are pro-LGBTQ is not a dominant percentage yet, which is also true of Christianity. But it is apparently ahead of evangelical Christianity here in America, as the articles I linked to show.
Measured against your (reprehensible) moral code (for this issue), you will see it as a lack of progress, Seer. That is how subjective morality works. Measured against mine, and the general social/group trend, it is progressing.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostIt's also curious to me that you imply that we should derive our sense of morality from the animals. In that case, is it OK to kill sexual rivals in the interest of ensuring that it's one's own genes that are passed on? After all, it happens all the time throughout the animal kingdom.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostAs I said, it's a simple biological fact that males and females are physically compatible in a way that two males and two females are not.
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostWhether or not a heterosexual couple is willing or able to procreate is beside the point.
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostHow often is a young married couple asked, "So when are you two going to have kids?" People intuitively understand that offspring are the naturally expected result of sexual activity.
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostIt's also curious to me that you imply that we should derive our sense of morality from the animals.
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostIn that case, is it OK to kill sexual rivals in the interest of ensuring that it's one's own genes that are passed on?
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostAfter all, it happens all the time throughout the animal kingdom.
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostAs you say, "that bound [is set] everywhere", which implies that the bound can be set anywhere.
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostOn what basis would you argue that one culture got it right while another got it wrong.
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostWhat if a culture decided to remove the bound entirely? What then?
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostYour "moral high-ground" is nothing but a puddle of Jell-O that allows you to slip and slide any way that your personal desires and current cultural norms demand.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by seer View PostRight your moral opinion has weight because you hold it - rather circular don't you think?
Originally posted by seer View PostBut my point stands, your moral sense is largely the result of the timing and place of your birth - something you had no control over.
Originally posted by seer View PostI'm not sure what you mean by extreme, I think that is a rather bigoted statement. Did you ever read the history of what Muhammad actually did? They are just following his lead...
Originally posted by seer View Post"Ahead of?" Because, again, they agree with you...
Originally posted by seer View PostReprehensible? You just can't stop judging me, can you Carp! But when I judge homoxexual behavior you get your panties in a wad... A bit hypocritical don't you think?
I'm sure that people who said to white supremacists, "your words and actions are bigoted," were also accused by white supremacists of being "bigoted against them." It's a kind of "i'm rubber, your glue" defense. Yes - I am justifiably "bigoted" against bigotry. Your objection is duly noted.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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