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Marlon Bundo

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  • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    Sure, Seer. That's exactly what it means...
    Yup, actually - your 'morality is only individual' thesis is just repackaged relativism.
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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    • Originally posted by Charles View Post
      Can God Be Good Without Us?

      And if there is a God (which I am yet to see you prove) it seems to follow that since human beings do not have value in and of themselves their value is based on the fact that God loves them and if he did not then torturing babies, killing and so on would be ok. Just like a lot of Christians find Hell to be just, because they don't care for humans but for what what God says. We find ourselves among the roots of religious extremism in this case only with the difference that luckily and by sheer accident, Christians do not go as far as ISIL or other with the same basic assumptions about God's role in moral philosophy (if you can even call it philosophy).
      You lose your rationale at Step Two - it is true that our value derives from Him - from His image in us, actually - but it's untrue that there are those He does not value. That His laws forbid murder, theft, adultery and the like is compelling evidence.

      You're grossly over simplifying and misconstruing Christian theology.
      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

      My Personal Blog

      My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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      • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
        ...

        His 24-year old "kid" is a young adult doing something good (a children's book with proceeds going to charity. Oliver & Co. took the opportunity to make a statement about something I consider equally good, and are also donating the proceeds to charity. Although the book is about Marlon Bundo, the parody is about Pence. It is one I happen to agree with. It is also (apparently) a well-written children's book (Oliver had it partly read/animated on his show). I am in support.
        14 or 54 - she isn't the VP - if you (general) want to attack the VP then have the decency and the guts to take him on directly, not by undercutting the charitable work his daughter is doing - which is EXACTLY what that parody does.

        And really don't compare that kind of cheap tactic to Gandhi or King. Both of them had their flaws but fighting trashy wasn't among them.
        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

        My Personal Blog

        My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

        Quill Sword

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        • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
          You lose your rationale at Step Two - it is true that our value derives from Him - from His image in us, actually - but it's untrue that there are those He does not value. That His laws forbid murder, theft, adultery and the like is compelling evidence.

          You're grossly over simplifying and misconstruing Christian theology.
          Or you are misconstructing my point? I have never said there are those god does not value. I have said that given the premisses presented it seems rather accidental and thus could be different. My points are in line with those of the Christian philosopher Leibniz. I wrote about it in much more detail in this thread in case you have not already seen it: http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...tion-of-ethics
          "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

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          • Originally posted by Charles View Post
            Or you are misconstructing my point? I have never said there are those god does not value. I have said that given the premisses presented it seems rather accidental and thus could be different. My points are in line with those of the Christian philosopher Leibniz. I wrote about it in much more detail in this thread in case you have not already seen it: http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...tion-of-ethics
            I did misread you on the first point (first sentence only) - apologies for that. The second is still a misconstruction and over simplification of Christian theology no matter who you attribute it to.
            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

            My Personal Blog

            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

            Quill Sword

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            • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
              Sure, Seer. That's exactly what it means...
              Of course Carp, that whole argument is inconsistent. We were discussing what was morally "ahead" or "behind." And you said that what was morally "ahead" was that which conforms to moral trends, like the trend to accept homosexual behavior. Then you turn around and talked about how you bucked social mores and trends. So you don't really buy into your own stated standard.
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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              • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                I did misread you on the first point (first sentence only) - apologies for that. The second is still a misconstruction and over simplification of Christian theology no matter who you attribute it to.
                Anything written in such a few lines is a simplification. You should go and read the much more detailed version if you take interest. You may find that the ideas you hold against my view are simplifications too.
                "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

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                • Originally posted by Charles View Post
                  Anything written in such a few lines is a simplification. You should go and read the much more detailed version if you take interest. You may find that the ideas you hold against my view are simplifications too.
                  I called it an over simplification, not a mere simplification. If you can't explain your view well enough to support the point then there's no real reason to suppose that it actually supports the point. My objection was to the point you were trying to make - that's not a world view challenge - it is a complaint about how you treated my worldview but only incidentally to the fact that it doesn't support your point because it isn't a correct representation of the theology.
                  "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                  "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                  My Personal Blog

                  My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                  Quill Sword

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                  • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                    I called it an over simplification, not a mere simplification. If you can't explain your view well enough to support the point then there's no real reason to suppose that it actually supports the point. My objection was to the point you were trying to make - that's not a world view challenge - it is a complaint about how you treated my worldview but only incidentally to the fact that it doesn't support your point because it isn't a correct representation of the theology.
                    I can easily explain it and have done so several times which is why you should read my post on it if you take interest in anything else than complaining about something short being short without wanting to read the longer version: http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...tion-of-ethics
                    "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

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                    • Originally posted by Charles View Post
                      I can easily explain it and have done so several times which is why you should read my post on it if you take interest in anything else than complaining about something short being short without wanting to read the longer version: http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...tion-of-ethics
                      Over simplification was the issue, not short and not simplification. Nice try at deflection but sorry, it didn't work.
                      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                      My Personal Blog

                      My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                      Quill Sword

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                      • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                        You attacked the analogy instead of addressing the issue - it's a common tactic for you when you don't like the implications or where the argument may lead. Deflection really doesn't fool anyone, especially if it becomes habitual.
                        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

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                        • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                          Yup, actually - your 'morality is only individual' thesis is just repackaged relativism.
                          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                            14 or 54 - she isn't the VP - if you (general) want to attack the VP then have the decency and the guts to take him on directly, not by undercutting the charitable work his daughter is doing - which is EXACTLY what that parody does.

                            And really don't compare that kind of cheap tactic to Gandhi or King. Both of them had their flaws but fighting trashy wasn't among them.
                            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by seer View Post
                              Of course Carp, that whole argument is inconsistent. We were discussing what was morally "ahead" or "behind." And you said that what was morally "ahead" was that which conforms to moral trends, like the trend to accept homosexual behavior. Then you turn around and talked about how you bucked social mores and trends. So you don't really buy into your own stated standard.
                              No - my point is that moral "trends" depends entirely on who is measuring them...a point which you seem to have missed entirely....
                              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                                Then you are not reading what I am writing. I am fairly clear on where I stand and why. But you certainly won't be the first here to accuse me of being disengenous. There's a handful of you that seem to do it on a fairly regular basis - usually when I say/post something you take exception to.
                                For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest

                                The fault couldn't possibly be yours - must be everybody who's reading you.

                                The point's been brought up by pretty much everyone who disagrees with you here, carpe, as far as I can tell. What we tend to take exception to is your habit of saying, "by x I mean z" where "z" is some private definition only held by you. Yes, conservatives here tend to disagree with your stance on various issues, but that's not grounds (at least IMO) for accusing you of being disingenuous.
                                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                                Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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                                I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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