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And Now They Come For Your Speech...

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Roy View Post
    You're a liar, MM. I have done no such thing. I think the proposal cited in the OP is unworkable.

    If you think I have defended and applauded it, quote what I wrote, rather than what your paranoid fantasies have added.
    Oh please, Roy, you've been giving your tactic approval to government censorship throughout this thread.

    seer wrote:
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    I don't want the government telling me or anyone what we can print or convey, or what I need to fact check or not. It is NONE of their business.
    But you were quick to suggest that such censorship would be perfectly acceptable:
    Originally posted by Roy View Post
    You want to be able to propagate stories without bothering to check whether they are true, and without giving any indication that they might not be.
    When seer said that this is protected under our right to free speech, you replied:
    Originally posted by Roy View Post
    Some demand freedom of speech so that they can expose the truth. Some so that they can spread lies.
    The implication, obviously, in light of your previous post, is that you think news organizations that wish to spread what you think are "lies" should be censured by the government. You then disingenuously pretended that there is a meaningful difference between the government directly censoring a news organization, and the government putting rules in place requiring a news organizations to effectively censor itself or face legal repercussions.

    Most damning of all is the fact that you have not thus far expressed open or even veiled opposition to the idea of the government stepping in and telling news organizations what they can and cannot publish.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Roy View Post
      Some demand freedom of speech so that they can expose the truth. Some so that they can spread lies.
      But if it is not out there freely the truth can not be seen in comparison to the lies.
      Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        Do you really want the government determining what is and is not lies? If you need to think about it then consider that right now it would be the Trump Administration determining what is and is not "Fake News" (that ought to cause a few liberal hearts around here to skip a beat )

        ETA: I see MM has already raised this specter.
        And even a few conservative hearts some problems.
        Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by seer View Post
          The sad part is that there probably leftists on this site will agree.

          http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018...nline-content/
          The sad part is that you're linking blatant propaganda from a known propaganda site trying to cover up its own propaganda by sending out accusations of propaganda in front of them.

          From its otherwise unsupported claim that the legislator is far left, to its concluding claim that the Democratic party has become filled with intolerant fascists, it's a string of lies that would never have made it past a fact-checker.

          The irony.

          And the story itself is sourced back to an anti-vaxxer.
          California Senator Richard Pan, who was behind the infamous 2015 law mandating vaccinations for schoolchildren (SB277), has stepped up to the plate and introduced another bill.

          The company you keep.

          Comment


          • #35
            You guys just can't resist the genetic fallacy/poisoning the well, can you?

            You can go to the California government's own website and see the proposal for yourself:

            https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...01720180SB1424

            Which, if you check the opening post, is the only part seer directly quoted.

            Now, do you have anything to say about the California legislature entertaining a bill that would effectively place news organizations under government oversight?

            While it doesn't surprise me, I am troubled by the fact that not a single one of our resident liberals has condemned government censorship, and quite a few of you seem implicitly if not openly in favor of it.
            Last edited by Mountain Man; 04-10-2018, 01:40 PM.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              While it doesn't surprise me, I am troubled by the fact that not a single one of our resident liberals has condemned government censorship, and quite a few of you seem implicitly if not openly in favor of it.
              Why would people who have no regard for the 2nd Amendment have any for the 1st? This is obvious with their speech codes and political correctness.
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                While it doesn't surprise me, I am troubled by the fact that not a single one of our resident liberals has condemned government censorship, and quite a few of you seem implicitly if not openly in favor of it.
                I have a feeling you think I belong in that category of liberals though I think your are making reality too simple by putting other persons in such boxes. Anyway, I am of course against government censorship.

                It seems to me you have misunderstood some posts in here when you conclude that "quite a few of you seem implicitly if not openly in favor of it." Can you point me to anyone who is openly in favour of it? I know you have misinterpreted Roy to be in favour of it. Can you point me to some actual words in which anyone is openly in favour of government censorship? And no, I am not looking for you to tell me what other posters "really" mean or imply according to you. I am looking for their actual words in which they openly say that they like the idea of government censorship.
                "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                Comment


                • #38
                  It looks like we can add Chuckles to the list of our resident liberals who has refrained from openly condemning the proposed legislation which would effectively place news organizations under government oversight. Would you guys really be so dismissive if this proposal was coming from the Trump administration?
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    It looks like we can add Chuckles to the list of our resident liberals who has refrained from openly condemning the proposed legislation which would effectively place news organizations under government oversight. Would you guys really be so dismissive if this proposal was coming from the Trump administration?
                    I would hardly know what to write in order for you not to misrepresent it right away. I have openly condemned government censorship and then you want to make it seem as if I would have no problem with legislation that would allow for it. How stupid do you think your readers are, MM? Why don't we discuss real issues instead of all your false claims about whar others think.

                    And you failed to give the qoutes I asked for. You can't find them either?
                    "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Chuckles View Post
                      I have openly condemned government censorship...
                      Now that I've called you out, of course.

                      Let's see if your fellow liberals will openly denounce the California legislature for even proposing this measure.

                      Oh, and you're apparently not familiar with what the phrase "x if not y" means.
                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        Now that I've called you out, of course.

                        Let's see if your fellow liberals will openly denounce the California legislature for even proposing this measure.

                        Oh, and you're apparently not familiar with what the phrase "x if not y" means.
                        I am still waiting for you to answer this part: "It seems to me you have misunderstood some posts in here when you conclude that "quite a few of you seem implicitly if not openly in favor of it." Can you point me to anyone who is openly in favour of it? I know you have misinterpreted Roy to be in favour of it. Can you point me to some actual words in which anyone is openly in favour of government censorship? And no, I am not looking for you to tell me what other posters "really" mean or imply according to you. I am looking for their actual words in which they openly say that they like the idea of government censorship."

                        Perhaps you should try with a more fact based approach than the insinuations above. It would be interesting to see you focusing on providing facts to support what you say. It's the third time I am asking you to support your claim.
                        "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          Oh please, Roy, you've been giving your tactic approval to government censorship throughout this thread.
                          More lies on your part. Despite your attempts to pretend otherwise, criticising those who spread false stories is not equivalent to approving of government censorship.
                          Most damning of all is the fact that you have not thus far expressed open or even veiled opposition to the idea of the government stepping in and telling news organizations what they can and cannot publish.
                          So you're claiming I support government censorship because I haven't condemned it. Your claim is a lie.
                          Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                          MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                          MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                          seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            Now that I've called you out, of course.

                            Let's see if your fellow liberals will openly denounce the California legislature for even proposing this measure.

                            Oh, and you're apparently not familiar with what the phrase "x if not y" means.
                            It's the fallacy of the excluded middle, and MM is a blithering idiot.
                            Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                            MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                            MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                            seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Chuckles View Post
                              I am still waiting for you to answer this part: "It seems to me you have misunderstood some posts in here when you conclude that "quite a few of you seem implicitly if not openly in favor of it." Can you point me to anyone who is openly in favour of it? I know you have misinterpreted Roy to be in favour of it. Can you point me to some actual words in which anyone is openly in favour of government censorship? And no, I am not looking for you to tell me what other posters "really" mean or imply according to you. I am looking for their actual words in which they openly say that they like the idea of government censorship."

                              Perhaps you should try with a more fact based approach than the insinuations above. It would be interesting to see you focusing on providing facts to support what you say. It's the third time I am asking you to support your claim.
                              I see you still don't understand the meaning of the phrase "X if not Y," and I'm not even going to explain it to you because it's much more amusing to watch you twist in the wind.
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Roy View Post
                                More lies on your part. Despite your attempts to pretend otherwise, criticising those who spread false stories is not equivalent to approving of government censorship.So you're claiming I support government censorship because I haven't condemned it. Your claim is a lie.
                                I like how you whacked out the majority of my post that led up to the concluding paragraph which was not intended to stand without context and is therefore not a logically false statement. I guess you lacked an adequate response and thought nobody would notice if you simply and deceptively deleted the parts you couldn't answer. But guess what, kiddo? I noticed.
                                Last edited by Mountain Man; 04-11-2018, 05:46 AM.
                                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                                Comment

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