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Thread: TPP - And Trump Idiocy

  1. #61
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    IOW, more fake news. Par for the course I'm afraid.

    The more the left keeps concocting stories like these the more likely the public will simply shrug off something that's real. It's like the boy-who-cried-wolf.
    Unfortunately, there are low-info liberals who will dutifully grab their pitchforks and rush out to the field every singe time, so the media is just going to keep crying, "Wolf!"
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  2. #62
    tWebber Roy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    It is not clear to me that something I presented demonstrates "not X." Where, exactly, did that happen?
    ...
    So the original claim is X. You presented a source that demonstrated not-X yet insisted that this somehow lent credence to X. But being a post-modernist, such a blatant contradiction in logic probably doesn't even give you pause.
    Mmmm. I think you're using two different definitions of "Not-X".

    Defn 1: the negation of X - Trump said "[something]" vs "Turmp did not say "[something]".
    Defn 2: Something that isn't X - Trump said "[something]" vs Trump said "[some other thing]".
    Mountain Man: A skin cell is a skin cell. It doesn't grow, it doesn't organize, it doesn't adapt, it doesn't self-sustain, it doesn't metabolize, it doesn't respond to stimuli.

  3. #63
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Unfortunately, there are low-info liberals who will dutifully grab their pitchforks and rush out to the field every singe time, so the media is just going to keep crying, "Wolf!"
    The reason I knew that Trump never said that was because if he actually had, it would have been on every liberal news station and website 24 hours a day for at least a week.

  4. #64
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy View Post
    Mmmm. I think you're using two different definitions of "Not-X".

    Defn 1: the negation of X - Trump said "[something]" vs "Turmp did not say "[something]".
    Defn 2: Something that isn't X - Trump said "[something]" vs Trump said "[some other thing]".
    Trump was accused of saying X. carpe presented a source showing that Trump did not say X.

    I'm not sure where you're trying to go with this one, Roy.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  5. #65
    tWebber Roy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Trump was accused of saying X. carpe presented a source showing that Trump did not say X.
    Carpe presented a source showing that Trump said something other than X. That doesn't mean Trump didn't say X elsewhen.
    Mountain Man: A skin cell is a skin cell. It doesn't grow, it doesn't organize, it doesn't adapt, it doesn't self-sustain, it doesn't metabolize, it doesn't respond to stimuli.

  6. #66
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy View Post
    Carpe presented a source showing that Trump said something other than X. That doesn't mean Trump didn't say X elsewhen.
    His point was that the source did not support Trump saying X but it was used as "evidence" that Trump said X.

    Trump might have said X, but so far there is no actual evidence he did, despite Carpe's kabuki dancing.

  7. #67
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy View Post
    Carpe presented a source showing that Trump said something other than X. That doesn't mean Trump didn't say X elsewhen.
    Argument from silence.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  8. #68
    tWebber Roy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    His point was that the source did not support Trump saying X but it was used as "evidence" that Trump said X.

    Trump might have said X, but so far there is no actual evidence he did, despite Carpe's kabuki dancing.
    I don't disagree.
    Mountain Man: A skin cell is a skin cell. It doesn't grow, it doesn't organize, it doesn't adapt, it doesn't self-sustain, it doesn't metabolize, it doesn't respond to stimuli.

  9. #69
    tWebber Roy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Argument from silence.
    Blither.
    Mountain Man: A skin cell is a skin cell. It doesn't grow, it doesn't organize, it doesn't adapt, it doesn't self-sustain, it doesn't metabolize, it doesn't respond to stimuli.

  10. #70
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Read what I said. I said you have been on MY case about me mind reading YOU. Claiming you meant something when you say you did not. You don't seem to like me doing that.
    Actually, it is not correct to say that I "don't like it." It doesn't bother me at a personal level. It just strikes me as a pointless way of engaging. At first I was falling into the trap of repeatedly trying to clarify what my post meant, but I eventually realized that was pointless. When someone has locked themselves into "you meant this - don't deny it," it's a waste of time to repeatedly try to convince them of what you actually meant. So now I clarify and try to keep it to once, then point out that some mind reading is going on and move on. At least, I try to. I still do occasionally still let myself get sucked into the exchange. But I'm working on it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Yet when this reporter actually attributes an actual QUOTE to Trump, you rationalize the weakest of "evidence" to justify what he did as plausible.
    So, first, we are not talking about something someone meant as opposed to something someone said; we are talking about what was actually said. Second, while everyone continues to be focused on Trump's comment (which IS the focus of the exchange between you and Starlight), my focus has been on two words in YOUR post: "no evidence." I simply pointed out that there IS actually evidence - it's just not very good evidence. It's circumstantial at best, and might even be called "hearsay" evidence. I never used the words "plausible" or "likely" or "proven." Indeed, I have said, several times, it is "inadequate" evidence. It's just not "no evidence." My point was that you were using a superlative - an absolute - in what I considered to be an unwarranted way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    And the above is you just either being totally off base or trying to pretend you are in order to avoid confronting my point, and then you are doing your "I will give you the last word" so you can run away again. Fine. This is my last word. You are inconsistent when it comes to the matter of Trump and in this case where you have attempted to rationalize the reporter making up a bald-faced lie about Trump by claiming that there is "evidence" just not very good evidence.
    (and that emoji is aimed at me, not you). It's three days after I wrote the post you are responding to. A significant amount has happened to me (personally) since then, and I am just sitting back down to pick up the threads of my discussions. I completely forgot I had said, "last word is yours."

    Oh well, I wrote the response, might as well post it. Meanwhile, top o' the mornin' to ya.

    I will get off now. The exchange is more funny than it is productive. It's like two people going to war over a pomegranate!
    Last edited by carpedm9587; 04-17-2018 at 12:44 PM.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

    -Martin Luther King

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