Originally posted by rogue06
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TPP - And Trump Idiocy
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Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostIt is not clear to me that something I presented demonstrates "not X." Where, exactly, did that happen?
So the original claim is X. You presented a source that demonstrated not-X yet insisted that this somehow lent credence to X. But being a post-modernist, such a blatant contradiction in logic probably doesn't even give you pause.
Defn 1: the negation of X - Trump said "[something]" vs "Turmp did not say "[something]".
Defn 2: Something that isn't X - Trump said "[something]" vs Trump said "[some other thing]".Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostUnfortunately, there are low-info liberals who will dutifully grab their pitchforks and rush out to the field every singe time, so the media is just going to keep crying, "Wolf!"
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Originally posted by Roy View PostMmmm. I think you're using two different definitions of "Not-X".
Defn 1: the negation of X - Trump said "[something]" vs "Turmp did not say "[something]".
Defn 2: Something that isn't X - Trump said "[something]" vs Trump said "[some other thing]".
I'm not sure where you're trying to go with this one, Roy.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostTrump was accused of saying X. carpe presented a source showing that Trump did not say X.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
Comment
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Originally posted by Roy View PostCarpe presented a source showing that Trump said something other than X. That doesn't mean Trump didn't say X elsewhen.
Trump might have said X, but so far there is no actual evidence he did, despite Carpe's kabuki dancing.
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Originally posted by Roy View PostCarpe presented a source showing that Trump said something other than X. That doesn't mean Trump didn't say X elsewhen.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostHis point was that the source did not support Trump saying X but it was used as "evidence" that Trump said X.
Trump might have said X, but so far there is no actual evidence he did, despite Carpe's kabuki dancing.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
Comment
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostArgument from silence.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
Comment
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostRead what I said. I said you have been on MY case about me mind reading YOU. Claiming you meant something when you say you did not. You don't seem to like me doing that.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostYet when this reporter actually attributes an actual QUOTE to Trump, you rationalize the weakest of "evidence" to justify what he did as plausible.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostAnd the above is you just either being totally off base or trying to pretend you are in order to avoid confronting my point, and then you are doing your "I will give you the last word" so you can run away again. Fine. This is my last word. You are inconsistent when it comes to the matter of Trump and in this case where you have attempted to rationalize the reporter making up a bald-faced lie about Trump by claiming that there is "evidence" just not very good evidence.
Oh well, I wrote the response, might as well post it. Meanwhile, top o' the mornin' to ya.
I will get off now. The exchange is more funny than it is productive. It's like two people going to war over a pomegranate!Last edited by carpedm9587; 04-17-2018, 07:44 AM.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostJust because I'm bored, I'm going to connect the dots:
Dimbulb posted a source which purported to be a direct quote from Trump, saying, "Don't care if we kill civilians, totally fine to kill civilians, and we're done we're out of there now." (For those keeping score at home, this is X.)
When Sparko asked for a source to prove the quote, you immediately jumped in to defend Dimbulb saying, "Presumably, since part of this was apparently a Fox and Friends interview, there is footage."
After a couple more exchanges with Sparko, you finally pointed to a source which you claimed was evidence supporting the quote in question despite the glaringly obvious fact that the cited article explicitly quoted Trump as not saying it but saying something entirely different. (For those keeping score at home, this is not-X.)
You then absurdly claimed that even though your source quotes the President as explicitly not making the statement in question, that it somehow "lends credence" to the assertion that he did say it.
So the original claim is X. You presented a source that demonstrated not-X yet insisted that this somehow lent credence to X. But being a post-modernist, such a blatant contradiction in logic probably doesn't even give you pause.
That being said, given the nature of Statement X and the nature of Statement Y, if I were a reporter, I would jump on the claimed Statement X rather than Statement Y, so I DO think that its absence in this article is evidence that Statement X was never said.
The entire focus of my posts on this has been to hold "evidence" and "proven" to their proper place. When we do not believe or do not like the evidence, or when the evidence fails to prove a case, that does not make it "not evidence." It makes it inadequate evidence. Anything that provides some insight as to whether something did or did not occur is "evidence." When the defense (or prosecution) fails to make their case, that does not mean there was "no evidence," it means the evidence failed to convince and/or was overshadowed by evidence for the other side. And "proven" is too often used for things that are merely speculation and guesswork. Claiming it is NOT speculation and guesswork doesn't make it so.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Carpe, Please delete your last post to me since you said I could have the last word.
This idiotic tactic of yours needs to stop. You can't deal with the debate so you pretend to run away while taking the high ground and giving your opponent the last word. Yet you never can follow through. It's pretty sad.
Along with your propensity to never admit that you are wrong and trying every way imaginable to rationalize yourself and wiggle out of any commitment to a position.Last edited by Sparko; 04-17-2018, 08:15 AM.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostAlong with your propensity to never admit that you are wrong and trying every way imaginable to rationalize yourself and wiggle out of any commitment to a position.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostHe's a classic post-modernist, so I suspect he considers this sort of thinking to be reasonable and rational. If he can define himself out of error then that's what he'll do even if he has to mangle the English language to do it, because in his mind, words can mean whatever you want them to mean at any given moment.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostCarpe, Please delete your last post to me since you said I could have the last word.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostThis idiotic tactic of yours needs to stop. You can't deal with the debate so you pretend to run away while taking the high ground and giving your opponent the last word. Yet you never can follow through. It's pretty sad.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostAlong with your propensity to never admit that you are wrong and trying every way imaginable to rationalize yourself and wiggle out of any commitment to a position.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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