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  • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
    3 dimensions = 1 space

    There, an example of 1 thing consisting of three other distinct things.

    Length, height and depth are all distinct, yet there are not 3 spaces, but only one space.

    You're welcome.
    Again, another poor useless analogy. Three dimensions is simply a human geometric simplistic way of describing space and not the reality of space which likely has more dimensions.

    I consider all the analogies offered as superficial, and not meaningful when trying to justify the Trinity. Analogies should directly parallel examples the describe the nature of the relationship. Since the Trinity is described as "mystery" that is not explainable (?) these analogies are indeed uselsss.
    Last edited by shunyadragon; 05-19-2018, 07:29 AM.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
      Again, another poor useless analogy. Three dimensions is simply a human simplistic way of describing space and not the reality of space which likely has more dimensions.


      Leave it to shuny to completely miss the point.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
        3 dimensions = 1 space

        There, an example of 1 thing consisting of three other distinct things.

        Length, height and depth are all distinct, yet there are not 3 spaces, but only one space.

        You're welcome.
        That space requires 3 dimensions in order to measure it does not mean 3 = 1. That's more than a bit of a stretch. That's like making my couch a analog for the trinity because it also has length, height, and width. Ohh... and I need to describe 3 colors because that's how many are in the fabric covering it. Ohh.. and it's made of wood, metal, and fabric.

        Somehow, none of these things remind me in any way of my theology lessons of "trinity." And I can tell you, from the outside, they won't really tell someone trying to understand all that much, IMO.
        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

        Comment


        • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
          Again, another poor useless analogy. Three dimensions is simply a human geometric simplistic way of describing space and not the reality of space which likely has more dimensions.

          I consider all the analogies offered as superficial
          Of course you do - you simply reject the Trinity, therefore, any analogy fails.

          and not meaningful when trying to justify the Trinity. Analogies should directly parallel examples the describe the nature of the relationship.
          And you even have to torture the definition of analogy. Lemme help...


          Definition of analogy
          a : a comparison of two otherwise unlike things based on resemblance of a particular aspect
          b : resemblance in some particulars between things otherwise unlike


          Since the Trinity is described as "mystery" that is not explainable (?) these analogies are indeed uselsss.
          They are useless to anybody who rejects the Trinity, and refuses to consider it possible.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
            That space requires 3 dimensions in order to measure it does not mean 3 = 1.
            No, but the Trinity doesn't imply that 3 = 1 either.

            Length, height and depth are all distinct dimensions of space, which all "permeates" space, but there is still only 1 space, not 3 spaces.

            Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
            That's more than a bit of a stretch. That's like making my couch a analog for the trinity because it also has length, height, and width.
            I mean, it could be argued that any object is an analog for the trinity in the way that it has length, height and width but is still only one object.

            Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
            Ohh... and I need to describe 3 colors because that's how many are in the fabric covering it. Ohh.. and it's made of wood, metal, and fabric.
            Three different colors or three different material types isn't related to each other the same way as the three spatial dimensions are.

            Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
            Somehow, none of these things remind me in any way of my theology lessons of "trinity." And I can tell you, from the outside, they won't really tell someone trying to understand all that much, IMO.
            I don't really care about your theology lessons. Obviously they were deficient if you came away from them with the notion that the Trinity taught that 3 could equal 1.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
              No, but the Trinity doesn't imply that 3 = 1 either.

              Length, height and depth are all distinct dimensions of space, which all "permeates" space, but there is still only 1 space, not 3 spaces.

              I mean, it could be argued that any object is an analog for the trinity in the way that it has length, height and width but is still only one object.

              Three different colors or three different material types isn't related to each other the same way as the three spatial dimensions are.

              I don't really care about your theology lessons. Obviously they were deficient if you came away from them with the notion that the Trinity taught that 3 could equal 1.
              If it works for you...
              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

              Comment


              • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                If it works for you...
                It works because it's true.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                  It works because it's true.
                  To you...

                  It's not true to everyone, Chrawnus.

                  And I recognize that this does not change what is real - it just means we disagree on what that actually is.

                  At least one of us is clearly wrong...

                  And we don't agree on that either
                  The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                  I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                  Comment


                  • Trinity is the name of the explanation. Then in turn some make explanations of the explanation. Then others make the excuse that it is a mystery.
                    . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                      It works because it's true.
                      Confirmation bias! It only works if you want it to be true.
                      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                        Confirmation bias! It only works if you want it to be true.
                        Something is not true because one wants a thing to be true. What is true is true without respect of what anyone wants. Uncaused Existence for example being God's only primary identity.
                        . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                        . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                        Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                          Something is not true because one wants a thing to be true. What is true is true without respect of what anyone wants.
                          I think we all know that. We just disagree on what is true or false. Our belief doesn't make it true or false. Our belief reflects what we find to be true or false.
                          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                            Confirmation bias! It only works if you want it to be true.
                            You're mirror-gazing.

                            I believe in the Trinity because it makes the most sense of the available data. I am certainly not Orthdox because I wanted that to be true. I was quite comfortable where I was before I converted, and I don't much like change.
                            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                            sigpic
                            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post


                              Leave it to shuny to completely miss the point.
                              It's not hard when there is no point to miss.
                              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                              go with the flow the river knows . . .

                              Frank

                              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                                Something is not true because one wants a thing to be true.
                                What about because you, 37818, say it is true?

                                Comment

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