Nobody Dies for a Lie

[Sparko]

There is no need to prove it since it is illogical prima facie. 3 is not 1, 1 is not 3. Saying that God is 3 minds in 1 is no different than saying you are 3 minds in 1 person. The illogical doesn't become logical just because you declare that being that it is god we can claim anything at all and say it is logical.

No it isn't illogical prima facie. The law of noncontradiction only states that A cannot be Not-A at the same time and same manner. The "3" and the "1" are not both "A's" - they are different classes. If you wish to claim that the Trinity is illogical you will need to actually prove it instead of just repeating your assertion.

Three distinct persons who are one distinct person is illogical.
Three distinct Gods who are one disctinct God is illogical.
Three distinct persons who are one distinct God is not illogical.

[JimL]

We already know the universe didn't always exist but started 14 billion years ago so what you believe is just wrong. Time itself didn't exist prior to then so it can't have "always" existed. Your belief is completely illogical.

No, we don't know that, if we did know that, there would be no debate about what if anything exists outside of our spacetime. Funny you think you know that.

[JimL]

No it isn't illogical prima facie. The law of noncontradiction only states that A cannot be Not-A at the same time and same manner. The "3" and the "1" are not both "A's" - they are different classes. If you wish to claim that the Trinity is illogical you will need to actually prove it instead of just repeating your assertion.

Right, and 3 can not be 3 and Not-3, i.e. it can't be 3 and 1 at the same time and same manner.

Three distinct persons who are one distinct person is illogical.

True, true.

Three distinct Gods who are one disctinct God is illogical.

Again, very true.

Three distinct persons who are one distinct God is not illogical.

False, they are either persons or they are god. Again, just because you call it god, doesn't make your illogic all of a sudden logical. If I said that 3 distinct persons are 1 person you'd recognize the illogic of the statement. You saying the same thing but calling the 1 entity god rather than person doesn't make it any more logical unless you give a logical reason as to how being god changes the illogical nature of the statement. How is god different in that respect? Can he be 1 god and 25 distinct persons? 100 distinct persons? A 1000? Does anything go with you?

[Cow Poke]

False, they are either persons or they are god. Again, just because you call it god, doesn't make your illogic all of a sudden logical. If I said that 3 distinct persons are 1 person you'd recognize the illogic of the statement. You saying the same thing but calling the 1 entity god rather than person doesn't make it any more logical unless you give a logical reason as to how being god changes the illogical nature of the statement. How is god different in that respect? Can he be 1 god and 25 distinct persons? 100 distinct persons? A 1000? Does anything go with you?

wow

[JimL]

wow

Dumbfounded are we, CP?

[Cow Poke]

Dumbfounded are we, CP?

You are dumbfounded, I am amazed and astounded.

[One Bad Pig]

You are dumbfounded, I am amazed and astounded.

You're in danger of allowing to JimL to drag you down to his level. He WILL beat you with experience.

[Cow Poke]

You're in danger of allowing to JimL to drag you down to his level. He WILL beat you with experience.

Bless his heart.

[JonathanL]

Of course you are. The Father has a mind, Jesus has a mind, the holy spirit has a mind, that's three, three, three minds in one. If you now want to argue that there is only one mind, then the notion that there are three distinct persons makes no sense.

But we're not saying that there are only 1 minds. There are three Persons, who are all fully divine, united in one essence. But the three Persons/Minds don't fuse into some sort of single Mind/Person. They are three separate Persons who each share fully in one indivisible divine essence. But no one is saying that there is a person (God) who is simultaneously three different Persons (Father, Son, Spirit).

Funny that you won't describe these logical, non contradictory versions, of the trinity that you've seen.

I already did. But I can do it again. There are three Persons who share in one eternal, undivided and indivisible divine essence. There you go. Not a single logical contradiction as far as the eye can see.

[Cow Poke]

I already did. But I can do it again. There are three Persons who share in one eternal, undivided and indivisible divine essence. There you go. Not a single logical contradiction as far as the eye can see.

Second verse same as the first!!!

[rogue06]

You are dumbfounded, I am amazed and astounded.

FIFY n/c

[Tassman]

You are merely asserting this again. You need to prove it is so. We have already said that the "three" is persons and the "one" is God. Two different classes.

You can say it as often as you like, repetition does not make it so. The Doctrine of the Trinity is logically incoherent. God cannot be “One” and yet at the same time be “Three”. Just as Jesus cannot at the same time be “fully god” and “fully man”.

[JonathanL]

You can say it as often as you like, repetition does not make it so. The Doctrine of the Trinity is logically incoherent. God cannot be “One” and yet at the same time be “Three”. Just as Jesus cannot at the same time be “fully god” and “fully man”.

You can say it as often as you like, repetition does not make it so. The Doctrine of the Trinity is not logically incoherent. Nowhere does it state that God is "One" and yet at the same time "Three".

[JimL]

But we're not saying that there are only 1 minds. There are three Persons, who are all fully divine, united in one essence. But the three Persons/Minds don't fuse into some sort of single Mind/Person. They are three separate Persons who each share fully in one indivisible divine essence. But no one is saying that there is a person (God) who is simultaneously three different Persons (Father, Son, Spirit).




I already did. But I can do it again. There are three Persons who share in one eternal, undivided and indivisible divine essence. There you go. Not a single logical contradiction as far as the eye can see.

Three does not equal one, Chrawnus, and it doesn't matter what you want to call the one. Calling the one an undivided and indivisible divine essence, or god, doesn't change the fact that it is one. As a matter of fact, that definition, "undivided and indivisible divine essence", only makes the illogic of the 3 in 1 trinity concept more explicit.

[JimL]

You can say it as often as you like, repetition does not make it so. The Doctrine of the Trinity is not logically incoherent. Nowhere does it state that God is "One" and yet at the same time "Three".

Actually it is logically incoherent, and actually yes it does say that it is 3 persons in one god, i.e. "One" and yet at the same time "Three." You think you're making sense out of it, but that's because you're so deeply invested in it, you so desperately want it to make sense, but it just doesn't.