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Atheists or Creationists - who's got more faith?

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  • Atheists or Creationists - who's got more faith?

    As many of you may recall, since my first day here on TWeb I've stated that Atheists/Materialists are religious folk - deeply religious folk - they just don't like to admit it. BTW, that is why I always capitalize Atheist/Atheism and Materialist/Materialism -- because theirs is a religious position every bit as much as is Christianity, Buddhism, etc. That religious position makes its way into Evolutionism (but that's another story).

    I recently came across the following short video (< 5 minutes) in which a PhD astrophysicist states the essence of one of my arguments. I definitely do not agree with everything he says but on that one point he is correct.

    https://www.prageru.com/videos/whats...-or-multiverse

    Be sure to enjoy, especially the Materialist/Atheist faithful among you.

    Jorge

  • #2
    Originally posted by Jorge View Post
    As many of you may recall, since my first day here on TWeb I've stated that Atheists/Materialists are religious folk - deeply religious folk - they just don't like to admit it. BTW, that is why I always capitalize Atheist/Atheism and Materialist/Materialism -- because theirs is a religious position every bit as much as is Christianity, Buddhism, etc. That religious position makes its way into Evolutionism (but that's another story).

    I recently came across the following short video (< 5 minutes) in which a PhD astrophysicist states the essence of one of my arguments. I definitely do not agree with everything he says but on that one point he is correct.

    https://www.prageru.com/videos/whats...-or-multiverse

    Be sure to enjoy, especially the Materialist/Atheist faithful among you.

    Jorge
    This is the ‘you are as bad as we are’ non-argument.
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
    “not all there” - you know who you are

    Comment


    • #3
      Cosmologists' argument: We know something caused our universe - we think it causes other universes too.
      Creationists' argument: We know something caused our universe - we think it wrote the Bible too.
      Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

      MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
      MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

      seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Jorge View Post
        As many of you may recall, since my first day here on TWeb I've stated that Atheists/Materialists are religious folk - deeply religious folk - they just don't like to admit it. BTW, that is why I always capitalize Atheist/Atheism and Materialist/Materialism -- because theirs is a religious position every bit as much as is Christianity, Buddhism, etc. That religious position makes its way into Evolutionism (but that's another story).

        I recently came across the following short video (< 5 minutes) in which a PhD astrophysicist states the essence of one of my arguments. I definitely do not agree with everything he says but on that one point he is correct.

        https://www.prageru.com/videos/whats...-or-multiverse

        Be sure to enjoy, especially the Materialist/Atheist faithful among you.

        Jorge
        Stop trying to drag us atheists down to your level, Jorge. Atheism is no more a religion than not playing tennis is a sport.
        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

        Comment


        • #5
          Everyone is given faith according to God's word by means of God`s word, ". . . So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world." The argument being that from natural revelation, Romans 10:17-18, Psalm 19:4, ". . . Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world." God having spoken the universe into existence and all the universe's laws being God's word.
          . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
            This is the ‘you are as bad as we are’ non-argument.
            No, this is the 'stop being such a hypocrite' argument.

            OR, if you prefer ...

            'be honest for once in your life' argument.

            Jorge
            Last edited by Jorge; 04-26-2018, 10:34 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Tassman View Post
              Stop trying to drag us atheists down to your level, Jorge. Atheism is no more a religion than not playing tennis is a sport.
              As most of your kind, you are (1) ignorant, (2) stupid, (3) intellectually dishonest or, (4) some combination.

              The US Supreme Court, as well as the Supreme Court of many States, have all ruled that Atheism is a religion. Don't take my word for it - look it up. So, your opinion supersedes their rulings - is that what you're saying?

              When I joined the Air Force (long ago) I had to fill out many forms one of which was to state my religion --- this was in case of a life-threatening situation (would they call a Priest, a Rabbi, etc.). The form contained a list of religions to choose from. In that list was ATHEISM.

              Get a clue, Tassman - or remain ignorant, your choice.

              You may now return to practicing your RELIGION.

              Jorge
              Last edited by Jorge; 04-26-2018, 10:33 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Jorge the welcher
                The US Supreme Court, as well as the Supreme Court of many States, have all ruled that Atheism is a religion.
                Jorge said it, so it should be considered untrue until proven otherwise.
                Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jorge View Post

                  The US Supreme Court, as well as the Supreme Court of many States, have all ruled that Atheism is a religion. Don't take my word for it - look it up. So, your opinion supersedes their rulings - is that what you're saying?

                  No they haven't Clucky. SCOTUS has recognized atheism as equivalent to a “religion” for purposes of the First Amendment multiple times, such as having to swear a religious oath in order to take office. It has never ruled atheism IS a religion.

                  As usual is (1) ignorant, (2) stupid, (3) intellectually dishonest or, (4) some combination.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Roy View Post
                    Jorge said it, so it should be considered untrue until proven otherwise.
                    Look it up, Dumbo. You do know how to look things up, right?
                    Or do you need step-by-step instructions, perhaps written with jumbo crayons?

                    Jorge

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View Post
                      No they haven't Clucky. SCOTUS has recognized atheism as equivalent to a “religion” for purposes of the First Amendment multiple times, such as having to swear a religious oath in order to take office. It has never ruled atheism IS a religion.

                      As usual is (1) ignorant, (2) stupid, (3) intellectually dishonest or, (4) some combination.
                      Oh look, Beagle Boy -- one of 'those' that I was talking about. In fact, the 'head cheese' here on TWeb.

                      Every time Beagle Boy barks he reveals yet more of his rank ignorance and stupidity.

                      Shall we help him out? Sure, why not (for all the good it'll do him).

                      Here are just a few historical cases proving that what I claim is true:

                      --- “Secular” Humanism, an atheistic belief system, is a religion. Fourteen “Secular” Humanist churches receive tax exemptions permitted only for property used exclusively for “religious worship.” California Court of Appeal adopts a functional definition of religion. The test is “whether or not the belief occupies the same place in the lives of its holders that the orthodox beliefs occupy in the lives of believing majorities.” “Religion simply includes: (1) a belief, not necessarily referring to supernatural powers; (2) a cult, involving a gregarious association openly expressing the belief; (3) a system of moral practice directly resulting from an adherence to the belief; and (4) an organization within the cult designed to observe the tenets of the belief.” Fellowship of Humanity v. County of Alameda, 153 Cal. App. 2d 673 (1957)

                      --- The Supreme Court holds that Atheism is a religion under the Free Exercise Clause. The Court finds that a required theistic oath abridged the Free Exercise rights of an Atheist. The Court lists (in note 11) examples of nontheistic religions: “Among religions in this country which do not teach what would generally be considered a belief in the existence of God are Buddhism, Taoism, Ethical Culture, Secular Humanism and others. See Washington Ethical Society v. District of Columbia, 101 U.S. App. D.C. 371, 249 F.2d 127.” Torcaso v. Watkins, 367 U.S. 488 (1961)

                      --- Religion is a set of beliefs about the cause, nature and purpose of life. “Secular” Humanism / Atheism is a religion for establishment clause purposes because it depends on certain “faith assumptions” concerning the cause, nature and purpose of life. Smith v. Board of School Commissioners of Mobile County, 655 F. Supp. 939 (S.D. Ala. 1987)

                      --- Atheism is a religion for Establishment Clause purposes, as belief or disbelief in God is an impermissible religious orthodoxy. “[A] nonpreferentialist who would condemn subjecting public school graduates to, say, the Anglican liturgy would still need to explain why the government’s preference for theistic over nontheistic religion is constitutional.” The “settled law” is that the “Clause applies ‘to each of us, be he Jew or Agnostic, Christian or Atheist, Buddhist or Freethinker.’ ” Lee v. Weisman, 505 U.S. 577 (1992)

                      --- Atheistic White Supremacism is a Religion. A federal district court holds that an atheistic White Supremacist belief system based on survival of the fittest and natural selection is a religion. Peterson v. Wilmur Communications, Inc., 205 F. Supp. 2d 1014 (E.D. Wisc. 2002)

                      --- “Secular” Humanism is a religion. The Texas Court of Appeals rules that the use of the “Supreme Being” test (belief in a higher power) denies the Ethical Society of Austin’s First Amendment rights. The court holds that the “Supreme Being” test is unconstitutionally under-inclusive and replaces it with the Malnak test (a religion addresses fundamental and ultimate questions). Strayhorn v. Ethical Society of Austin, 110 S.W. 3d 458 (Tex. App. - Austin 2003)

                      --- Atheism is an Establishment Clause religion. The Seventh Circuit holds that an atheist’s rights under the Establishment Clause were violated when prison officials refused to grant his request to form an atheist study group in a Wisconsin prison. Kaufman v. McCaughtry, 419 F.3d 678 (7th Cir. 2005)


                      Is that enough for you ignoramuses? It better be because I'm not doing any more of your work. If you want to become educated then research the matter - otherwise remain ignorant / stupid (that way you can continue spouting the lie that "Atheism is not a religion").

                      That's seven slam-dunk points for Team Jorge.

                      Jorge

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jorge View Post
                        As many of you may recall, since my first day here on TWeb I've stated that Atheists/Materialists are religious folk - deeply religious folk - they just don't like to admit it. BTW, that is why I always capitalize Atheist/Atheism and Materialist/Materialism -- because theirs is a religious position every bit as much as is Christianity, Buddhism, etc. That religious position makes its way into Evolutionism (but that's another story).

                        I recently came across the following short video (< 5 minutes) in which a PhD astrophysicist states the essence of one of my arguments. I definitely do not agree with everything he says but on that one point he is correct.

                        https://www.prageru.com/videos/whats...-or-multiverse

                        Be sure to enjoy, especially the Materialist/Atheist faithful among you.

                        Jorge
                        The answer is creationist, plain and simple. Atheist don't rely on faith.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jorge View Post

                          (snip the usual lies and dishonest spin)

                          As per usual vomits up some unsupported nonsense from a YEC website when none of the actual cases define atheism is a religion. The cases do exactly what I said they do, recognized atheism as equivalent to a “religion” for purposes of the First Amendment applications.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Jorge the welcher
                            Look it up, Dumbo. You do know how to look things up, right?
                            Naturally. That's why I know your list of cases is (i) from the COPE website, and (ii) garbage. For example, Torcaso v Watkins doesn't state that atheism is a religion, it states that some religions are atheistic.

                            It's also how I knew, unlike you, that your 'Dima' quote was fake.
                            Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                            MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                            MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                            seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View Post
                              As per usual vomits up some unsupported nonsense from a YEC website when none of the actual cases define atheism is a religion. The cases do exactly what I said they do, recognized atheism as equivalent to a “religion” for purposes of the First Amendment applications.
                              I don't think Jorge believes there is any difference between 'equivalent to a “religion” for purposes of the First Amendment applications.' and 'is a religion'. Perhaps you should focus on why the two statements are or are not the same. (I say you because, as I said, I doubt Jorge can recognize why anyone would see them as different let alone make an argument one way or the other).

                              Personally I could make Jorge's case better than your own, so I'd like to hear your case. That is:

                              1) Atheism is a religion in the sense that it is guaranteed the same protections as a religion under the free exercise clause. Therefore it functions legally as a religion.
                              2) Atheism does express a belief concerning God. Specifically, it expresses the belief that there is no God. This is no less a statement of belief than 'there is a God'. It is a belief. It is still about God.

                              I just don't see any effective argument against that. It is a belief - it is not objectively provable. It is about God.

                              I've always seen the only response to the question of God(or gods) that does not invoke some element of belief (and hence lend itself to being considered a religion) to be that of the agnostic. "I don't know if there is or is not".

                              The cases Jorge cites are giving Atheism a legal protection under the law through the free exercise clause. I don't think it is logically consistent nor ideologically honest to seek the legal protection given to religions and then at the same time also attempt to claim one's beliefs aren't in fact religious in nature. That would be an abuse of the legal system.

                              Jim
                              Last edited by oxmixmudd; 04-27-2018, 12:04 PM.
                              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                              Comment

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