Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Iran nuclear deal

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    This is probably Trump's true legacy of his Presidency. He has, now and forever, cemented the United States reputation as completely unreliable in international agreements, subject to any whimsical change after the next election cycle.

    I see other bad actors on the international stage using this opportunity (they'd be stupid not to)- ergo Putin, Assad, Erdogan, Duterte etc will use this decision as justification to ignore treaties and agreements to further their own autocratic agenda (eg the, "What we're doing is no different than what America is doing" defense).

    Can you Muppets stop winning please? You're ruining the world for everyone else

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by EvoUK View Post
      This is probably Trump's true legacy of his Presidency. He has, now and forever, cemented the United States reputation as completely unreliable in international agreements, subject to any whimsical change after the next election cycle.

      I see other bad actors on the international stage using this opportunity (they'd be stupid not to)- ergo Putin, Assad, Erdogan, Duterte etc will use this decision as justification to ignore treaties and agreements to further their own autocratic agenda (eg the, "What we're doing is no different than what America is doing" defense).

      Can you Muppets stop winning please? You're ruining the world for everyone else
      Or you could try learning how the American system works before you make ignorant comments about it. Per the constitution a treaty has to go through the senate to be ratified. Obama didn’t send The Paris Accords or The Iran Nuclear Deal through the senate so they never were anything more than things Obama agreed to and therefore a new president had no legal obligation to go along with either. Perhaps you should blame Obama for refusing to work with the republican controlled senate. Sorry, Obama made the rules, Trump is just following them.
      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Dimbulb View Post
        Since I presume you have no clue on these things, here are the facts:
        1. In 1979 the US froze Iranian accounts, including $400 million that had been paid to the US for fighter jets that were never delivered. The US didn't get around to unfreezing that money and just pocketed the $400 million and walked away.
        2. An Iran–United States Claims Tribunal based in the Hague was established to resolve the legal dispute over this money. The tribunal process dragged on for years and years. Iran was seeking $10 billion in compensation.
        3. The rumors were that the the tribunal was finally going to make a ruling, and not in the US's favor. To preempt this, the US chose to settle the case. The settlement was to pay back the $400 million with accrued interest (totaling $1.7 billion). This potentially saved the US ~$8 billion if the tribunal had given Iran the compensation it was seeking.

        As Jim says, it was pretty much a win-win situation for the US, as they avoided penalties that could have amounted to $8 billion, and finally resolving the dispute put the Iranians in a good mood and they released some US hostages.
        Yes, definitely satire, because otherwise you would have to be a moron to think that paying a $1.7 billion ransom to a terrorist state while brokering a worthless, one-sided, unenforceable treaty is a win for the US.
        Last edited by Mountain Man; 05-09-2018, 08:10 AM.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
          Or you could try learning how the American system works before you make ignorant comments about it. Per the constitution a treaty has to go through the senate to be ratified. Obama didn’t send The Paris Accords or The Iran Nuclear Deal through the senate so they never were anything more than things Obama agreed to and therefore a new president had no legal obligation to go along with either. Perhaps you should blame Obama for refusing to work with the republican controlled senate. Sorry, Obama made the rules, Trump is just following them.
          Yep. Obama attempted an end-run around the Constitution by calling it an "agreement" even though it was a treaty in all but name only, and shame on Congress for letting him get away with it, but maybe we should be thankful, because you're right to say that the US was never legally bound to uphold it which made it possible for Trump to get us out of that mess.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
            Boeing to lose 20 billion dollars worth of aircraft sales to Iran because sanctions reimposed.

            All because Obama is black.
            I think it's more that Obama belittled Trump at the National Correspondents Dinner. You could see the smoke coming out of his ears at the time. So regardless of the countries best interests Trump is doing his best to destroy Obama's legacy. That's the kind of vengeful character Trump is.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Starlight View Post
              It was also because Obama made fun of Trump in front of everyone at a White House correspondents dinner. Trump was utterly enraged, and I think his hatred of Obama and desire to destroy everything Obama achieved largely comes from that evening (and it's also why Trump refuses to attend any White House correspondents dinners now). Previously he was just a run of the mill racist, but that evening made it personal for him.
              Ooops, I see you beat me to it, star. Sorry.
              Last edited by JimL; 05-09-2018, 08:48 AM.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                Or you could try learning how the American system works before you make ignorant comments about it. Per the constitution a treaty has to go through the senate to be ratified. Obama didn’t send The Paris Accords or The Iran Nuclear Deal through the senate so they never were anything more than things Obama agreed to and therefore a new president had no legal obligation to go along with either. Perhaps you should blame Obama for refusing to work with the republican controlled senate. Sorry, Obama made the rules, Trump is just following them.
                Perhaps you should open your ears and eyes and recognize that the majority republican congress was not going to work with the President on anything, leaving him little choice but to get things done in any way that he could. If some dip stick republican is then elected and decides to rip up those deals then that's the way it goes. The american people get what they deserve!

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Dimbulb View Post
                  Since I presume you have no clue on these things, here are the facts:
                  1. In 1979 the US froze Iranian accounts, including $400 million that had been paid to the US for fighter jets that were never delivered. The US didn't get around to unfreezing that money and just pocketed the $400 million and walked away.
                  2. An Iran–United States Claims Tribunal based in the Hague was established to resolve the legal dispute over this money. The tribunal process dragged on for years and years. Iran was seeking $10 billion in compensation.
                  3. The rumors were that the the tribunal was finally going to make a ruling, and not in the US's favor. To preempt this, the US chose to settle the case. The settlement was to pay back the $400 million with accrued interest (totaling $1.7 billion). This potentially saved the US ~$8 billion if the tribunal had given Iran the compensation it was seeking.

                  As Jim says, it was pretty much a win-win situation for the US, as they avoided penalties that could have amounted to $8 billion, and finally resolving the dispute put the Iranians in a good mood and they released some US hostages.
                  Let's look at some other facts...

                  "The Obama administration [...] acknowledged the cash was used as leverage until the Americans were allowed to leave Iran."

                  So Obama flat-out admitted that the money was a ransom payment to a terrorist state. Also, he never told us the whole story.

                  Source: The Story of Obama's Ransom Payment to Iran Gets Worse

                  The president’s statement, however, omitted a great deal of relevant information. The president was returning $400 million in Iran’s 'Foreign Military Sales' (FMS) account with the Pentagon, plus $1.3 billion in interest, but he failed to mention that in 1981, when Iran filed its claim before the Claims Tribunal at The Hague, the U.S. had responded with a counterclaim for $817 million for Iran’s violations of its obligations under the FMS program. In 2016, with both the claim and the counterclaim still pending, it was possible that Iran owed billions of dollars to the U.S., not the reverse.

                  Nor did the president mention the Victims of Trafficking and Violence Protection Act, signed by President Bill Clinton in 2000 and stipulating that Iran’s FMS account could not be refunded until court judgments held by the U.S. government against Iran for damages from terrorist acts against American citizens were resolved to America’s satisfaction. Those judgments, including interest accumulated between 2001 and 2016, totaled about $1 billion. The president did not explain how, under the 2000 law, with those judgments still outstanding, he could pay Iran anything at all.

                  https://mosaicmagazine.com/observati...an-gets-worse/

                  © Copyright Original Source


                  Finally, John Kerry admitted that at least some of the money would find its way into the hands of terrorists.




                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    It was also because Obama made fun of Trump in front of everyone at a White House correspondents dinner. Trump was utterly enraged, and I think his hatred of Obama and desire to destroy everything Obama achieved largely comes from that evening (and it's also why Trump refuses to attend any White House correspondents dinners now). Previously he was just a run of the mill racist, but that evening made it personal for him.


                    Not everyone is as vindictively hateful as you (and Tassman and JimL, apparently) are. Trump's utter disdain for the press is more than sufficient to explain his refusal to attend the aforesaid event. And perhaps you haven't been paying attention, but the Paris Accords and the Iran deal weren't exactly embraced by the Republicans in general from the get-go. Imagination-fueled posts like this are why I don't take you seriously in any sort of political discussion.
                    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                    sigpic
                    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by JimL View Post
                      Perhaps you should open your ears and eyes and recognize that the majority republican congress was not going to work with the President on anything, leaving him little choice but to get things done in any way that he could. If some dip stick republican is then elected and decides to rip up those deals then that's the way it goes. The american people get what they deserve!
                      Tough luck. That’s how the law works and you don’t get to ignore the law because you don’t like the results. Can I ignore the law and do things the way I want because I don’t like the results? No so why does Obama get a free pass. Would you give Trump a pass if he made a unilateral agreement with a foreign government and ignored the constitution to do so? That’s actions dictators take, not elected officials that took an oath to uphold the law.
                      Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 05-09-2018, 09:32 AM.
                      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post


                        Not everyone is as vindictively hateful as you (and Tassman and JimL, apparently) are. Trump's utter disdain for the press is more than sufficient to explain his refusal to attend the aforesaid event. And perhaps you haven't been paying attention, but the Paris Accords and the Iran deal weren't exactly embraced by the Republicans in general from the get-go. Imagination-fueled posts like this are why I don't take you seriously in any sort of political discussion.
                        No, Trump knows that the Correspondents Dinner is a roast, and, fascist autocrat that he is, he can't take criticism. Simple as that. And perhaps you didn't notice but nothing Obama did was exactly embraced by Republicans in general from the get go.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post


                          Not everyone is as vindictively hateful as you (and Tassman and JimL, apparently) are. Trump's utter disdain for the press is more than sufficient to explain his refusal to attend the aforesaid event. And perhaps you haven't been paying attention, but the Paris Accords and the Iran deal weren't exactly embraced by the Republicans in general from the get-go. Imagination-fueled posts like this are why I don't take you seriously in any sort of political discussion.
                          Plus getting out of the Paris and Iran agreements were major platforms of Trump's campaign, so it's stupid to suggest that this was a snap decision because Trump was grumpy about the correspondents dinner. Ironically, some on the left had previously attempted to drive a wedge between the President and his base by criticizing him for not making good on his promise sooner!
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by JimL View Post
                            No, Trump knows that the Correspondents Dinner is a roast, and, fascist autocrat that he is, he can't take criticism. Simple as that. And perhaps you didn't notice but nothing Obama did was exactly embraced by Republicans in general from the get go.
                            That’s funny, coming from someone that thinks the president can ignore the constitution because congress won’t do whatever he wants.
                            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                              That’s funny, coming from someone that thinks the president can ignore the constitution because congress won’t do whatever he wants.
                              Lilpix, would you please stop listening to Alex Jones!

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by JimL View Post
                                Lilpix, would you please stop listening to Alex Jones!
                                Never have, but you’re the one that made the excuse that Obama was allowed to ignore the constitution because congress wouldn’t do whatever he wanted. Just using your own words against you Jimmy.
                                "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                                GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by little_monkey, Yesterday, 04:19 PM
                                16 responses
                                132 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post One Bad Pig  
                                Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                                53 responses
                                340 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Mountain Man  
                                Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                                25 responses
                                112 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                                33 responses
                                197 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Roy
                                by Roy
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                                84 responses
                                361 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post JimL
                                by JimL
                                 
                                Working...
                                X