Trump and racism

[carpedm9587]

In fact, I'm so puzzled, that I 'm re-reading my earlier posts to see which one could have given you the idea that I said that there is footage and that their refusal to relsease it proves that it doesn't exist.

He may be confusing you with me, and he is again confusing "evidence" with "proof." I provided the evidence for its existence, and noted that it inclines me to believe it does indeed exist. At no point did I say, "proves."

[Mountain Man]

I love this whole ‘hiding something’ narrative you’ve invented, but have no evidence that it even exist.

To a conspiracy nut, the lack of evidence is the most convincing evidence of all.

[carpedm9587]

To a conspiracy nut, the lack of evidence is the most convincing evidence of all.

Wow... that one made me snort my coffee up my nose...

[Sparko]

And, of course, his tax returns should have been leaked long ago. Sorry, Sparko - Trump controls this footage, has a reputation for legal action when crossed. That the footage has not been released is not a valid argument for "it doesn't exist." Indeed, as I noted, a stronger argument is, "if the footage exonerated him, why isn't it being released to do exactly that? Trump could lay this claim to rest with a single act.

But I do find it interesting that arguments from "why are they not releasing them" is perfectly acceptable when it's about Clinton and her emails, but somehow magically doesn't work when it's about Trump's video footage...

The fact that no such footage has been released is not an indication that such footage exists, Carp. It is basically inventing something then using the lack of evidence for it as evidence FOR it. Just like the whole Russian collusion. No evidence, just rumors. And then we get the argument, well we just haven't found the proof YET, but it's there! This is the same thing.

Trump doesn't have footage locked up in a vault. If you think he is that self-aware that he would know to do that, then he would have been self-aware not to have been racist on camera in the first place. This is a guy who has an ego bigger than the moon who just says whatever pops into his head at the moment and then doesn't give a crap about it or the consequences. If he were racist on camera, he wouldn't even notice or bother to hide the footage.

Not to mention he was just a star and executive producer. That is not a hands on position - he did not work on the set other than as the star. Executive producer means he put up some money. He didn't actually sit there while they edited the footage, or would even know where it was stored. It would just be stored on some computer hard drives and offloaded to the studeo's filing room after it was done. It would still be there. Anyone with studio access could just access it.

[One Bad Pig]

Did you catch my quote from Tony Perkins (who is one of the most influential Christian conservatives) earlier explicitly saying he was excusing Trump's affair because he was willing to attack Democrats?

Shame on Tony Perkins, then. I'm not familiar with the name.

There's also this:

Source: Lib and conservative analysts make the same discovery: Trump voters stay loyal because they feel disrespected

Three new deep dives into Donald Trump's strength in Midwestern counties that were previously Democratic strongholds - written by conservatives, liberals and a nonpartisan journalist - each highlight a deep craving for respect among supporters of the president and an enduring resentment toward coastal elites that buoys his popularity.
Read more

© Copyright Original Source

[Sparko]

I'm not basing my opinion on anything other than cynicism, or perhaps my suspicious misanthropy. While I do dislike Trump, my original comment was that he is probably no more or less racist than the average person, including myself.



I don't know if they would have released it or not. He might not have said things on camera. The producers might be political supporters. He might be paying them off.

He might be a reptillian nazi alien from Nibiru who went to work wearing a KKK outfit and being carried around by slaves.

In any case, those don't prove the racism--they are simply explanations as to why the original argument from silence doesn't work. The fact that there is no released footage of Trump being racist on a mainstream prime time network television show has no bearing on whether or not he is racist. He does tend to run off at the mouth, but that's why I noted that it could reflect the competence or sympathy of his producers.

fwiw,
guacamole

You are the one proposing all this happened and can't produce any evidence other than "the guy is racist so there probably is proof somewhere that he is racist because he is racist" That is the argument from silence. An argument without evidence. The fact that there is no footage of him being racist is not evidence that he is racist.

[Zymologist]

I don't think I've ever heard the name Tony Perkins before.

[carpedm9587]

The fact that no such footage has been released is not an indication that such footage exists, Carp. It is basically inventing something then using the lack of evidence for it as evidence FOR it. Just like the whole Russian collusion. No evidence, just rumors. And then we get the argument, well we just haven't found the proof YET, but it's there! This is the same thing.

Since the existence of this footage has been attested to by people involved with the program, I didn't "invent" anything. It is also known practice for reality TV programs to record an enormous amount of footage, and then edit it down to what is broadcast. So the existence of non-aired footage is pretty much a given. What remains is whether or not this footage contains racist comments (as claimed). If it does, Trump would have a good reason to keep it under lock and key. If it does not, his reason is....?

Trump doesn't have footage locked up in a vault. If you think he is that self-aware that he would know to do that, then he would have been self-aware not to have been racist on camera in the first place. This is a guy who has an ego bigger than the moon who just says whatever pops into his head at the moment and then doesn't give a crap about it or the consequences. If he were racist on camera, he wouldn't even notice or bother to hide the footage.

Pretty much nonstop assumptions. I don't find them compelling.

Not to mention he was just a star and executive producer. That is not a hands on position - he did not work on the set other than as the star. Executive producer means he put up some money. He didn't actually sit there while they edited the footage, or would even know where it was stored. It would just be stored on some computer hard drives and offloaded to the studeo's filing room after it was done. It would still be there. Anyone with studio access could just access it.

And anyone who releases footage Trump has said "keep it under lock and key" is subject to his infamous proclivity for lawsuits. Sorry, Sparko, that Trump has, as executive producer, prevented publication is a matter of public record. He has the authority, and he has exercised it. All that remains is to know "why."

[Sparko]

Since the existence of this footage has been attested to by people involved with the program, I didn't "invent" anything.

OK show me them saying that.

It is also known practice for reality TV programs to record an enormous amount of footage, and then edit it down to what is broadcast. So the existence of non-aired footage is pretty much a given. What remains is whether or not this footage contains racist comments (as claimed). If it does, Trump would have a good reason to keep it under lock and key. If it does not, his reason is....?

He has no way to do that is what I am trying to tell you. The studio has the footage, not Trump. And your other idea about "if he has nothing to hide why doesn't he release the footage?" is nonsense too. He doesn't have it socked away in a vault as far as I know and if there is that much footage where would he release terrabytes of video footage to?

Pretty much nonstop assumptions. I don't find them compelling.

look who's talking about nonstop assumptions. Sorry but I have to use one of those dumb smilies here that you hate so much.

And anyone who releases footage Trump has said "keep it under lock and key" is subject to his infamous proclivity for lawsuits. Sorry, Sparko, that Trump has, as executive producer, prevented publication is a matter of public record. He has the authority, and he has exercised it. All that remains is to know "why."

Gee. and nobody ever releases anything about Trump anonymously do they?

[rogue06]

And, of course, his tax returns should have been leaked long ago.

FWIU Trump emailed them to Hillary but she deleted them.

[carpedm9587]

OK show me them saying that.

Start here.

He has no way to do that is what I am trying to tell you. The studio has the footage, not Trump. And your other idea about "if he has nothing to hide why doesn't he release the footage?" is nonsense too. He doesn't have it socked away in a vault as far as I know and if there is that much footage where would he release terrabytes of video footage to

Sparko - I think you perhaps do not understand the role of the executive producer. There is a reason why Trump wanted to retain that role, even after he was elected.

look who's talking about nonstop assumptions. Sorry but I have to use one of those dumb smilies here that you hate so much.

I don't "hate" them, Sparko. I find them childish. You are free to use them as much as you wish. They don't reflect on me...

Meanwhile, feel free to outline where I have made an assumption. The statements of the participants in The Apprentice are a matter of public record. Trump's refusal to release the video is a matter of public record. Trump's behavior/language with respect to race is a matter of public record. Trump's legal battles around racism are a matter of public record. Trump's position on lying is a matter of public record. All that remains is a determination, on my part, that all of this paints a compelling picture. So If that last part is an "assumption," it is an assumption based on a lot of information that is a matter of public record.

Gee. and nobody ever releases anything about Trump anonymously do they?

It has happened. So far, we have very little leakage about Trump personally. We have a lot of leakage around the executive office. But after 3 years, only two pages have leaked of his tax return. Very little has leaked of his family dynamics. And nothing has leaked of The Apprentice, as far as I know. The lack of leaks, however, doesn't really tell us anything. The unwillingness of Trump to publish the unseen footage in the light of the allegations? That speaks volumes, at least to me.

[carpedm9587]

FWIU Trump emailed them to Hillary but she deleted them.

OK - that was good...

[Sparko]

Start here.



Sparko - I think you perhaps do not understand the role of the executive producer. There is a reason why Trump wanted to retain that role, even after he was elected.



I don't "hate" them, Sparko. I find them childish. You are free to use them as much as you wish. They don't reflect on me...

Meanwhile, feel free to outline where I have made an assumption. The statements of the participants in The Apprentice are a matter of public record. Trump's refusal to release the video is a matter of public record. Trump's behavior/language with respect to race is a matter of public record. Trump's legal battles around racism are a matter of public record. Trump's position on lying is a matter of public record. All that remains is a determination, on my part, that all of this paints a compelling picture. So If that last part is an "assumption," it is an assumption based on a lot of information that is a matter of public record.



It has happened. So far, we have very little leakage about Trump personally. We have a lot of leakage around the executive office. But after 3 years, only two pages have leaked of his tax return. Very little has leaked of his family dynamics. And nothing has leaked of The Apprentice, as far as I know. The lack of leaks, however, doesn't really tell us anything. The unwillingness of Trump to publish the unseen footage in the light of the allegations? That speaks volumes, at least to me.

Ok so the article was pretty much nothing more than rumors. Pruitt also said that Burnett had the tapes, which would be like I said: The Studio. They are on hard drives on a shelf somewhere. Or on backup tapes. If such did exist, it would be pretty easy for someone to "leak" them anonymously. Especially in hollywood where everyone hates Trump. He can't even keep leaks from happening in his own office.

[carpedm9587]

Ok so the article was pretty much nothing more than rumors. Pruitt also said that Burnett had the tapes, which would be like I said: The Studio. They are on hard drives on a shelf somewhere. Or on backup tapes. If such did exist, it would be pretty easy for someone to "leak" them anonymously. Especially in hollywood where everyone hates Trump. He can't even keep leaks from happening in his own office.

You can review the "Embedded" podcast series in which this was a major focus, Sparko. And you can do a little digging for yourself.

Or you can just write it off as "liberal attacks."

My guess is you will do the latter.

[Mountain Man]

Ok so the article was pretty much nothing more than rumors. Pruitt also said that Burnett had the tapes, which would be like I said: The Studio. They are on hard drives on a shelf somewhere. Or on backup tapes. If such did exist, it would be pretty easy for someone to "leak" them anonymously. Especially in hollywood where everyone hates Trump. He can't even keep leaks from happening in his own office.

Trump is apparently so smart that he's able to openly collude with Russia and be an overt, outspoken racist without leaving behind a shred of evidence.