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Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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Abortion Is Equal To Murder?

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  • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
    We are not talking about the dictionary definitions of “human” and “person” as you well know. We are talking about legal concepts of “personhood” and when a fetus becomes entitled to the protection and privileges of the law.
    I gave you the definition from a LAW dictionary.

    Try checking the link next time. https://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=1516

    Comment


    • I read in the WaPo Express this morning that a Virginia doctor pled guilty to fetal homicide for slipping his pregnant g/f an abortifacient in her tea.
      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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      • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
        I read in the WaPo Express this morning that a Virginia doctor pled guilty to fetal homicide for slipping his pregnant g/f an abortifacient in her tea.
        Similar charges have been brought when a pregnant woman gets shot resulting in the unborn babies death.

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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        • In any case it is murder being ignored by the law. It is also dehumanization of the unborn 'person'.
          Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
            Actually, no, language usage does not bear this out. In both cases human is the adjective standing in the place of the noun - HOWEVER - in vernacular English human alone is ALWAYS understood as 'human being' and never as human body part. This is not a rational position.
            Actually - upon reflection - I agree with your breakdown. I was failing to separate human as a noun and human as an adjective.

            Nicely put.
            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

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            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              I gave you the definition from a LAW dictionary.

              Try checking the link next time.
              "Person" has a broader definition then merely equalling "human". It does that too, but it also does more. The definition of 'Person' is to provide guidelines in law for the protection of individuals. Currently, in the US, this is generally when the life of the fetus is its own and viable and therefore subject to being protected by the state. In biblical times it was when the 'person' took it's first breath.
              “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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              • Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                In any case it is murder being ignored by the law. It is also dehumanization of the unborn 'person'.
                No it’s not. The proposal of some extremists in the ‘Personhood Movement’ to attach the rights and protections associated with legal "Personhood" to any human being from the moment of fertilisation is relatively recent, even among Evangelicals. It has overtones of a religious agenda, namely “ensoulment” and is quite unacceptable in a secular country like the USA.
                “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                  In any case it is murder being ignored by the law. It is also dehumanization of the unborn 'person'.
                  oh but that kind of dehumanization is OK because if they admit the baby is a person, then they would have to feel guilty. Can't have that.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                    "Person" has a broader definition then merely equalling "human". It does that too, but it also does more. The definition of 'Person' is to provide guidelines in law for the protection of individuals. Currently, in the US, this is generally when the life of the fetus is its own and viable and therefore subject to being protected by the state. In biblical times it was when the 'person' took it's first breath.
                    Don't quit your day job. You make a horrible lawyer, or a theologian.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                      "Person" has a broader definition then merely equalling "human". It does that too, but it also does more. The definition of 'Person' is to provide guidelines in law for the protection of individuals. Currently, in the US, this is generally when the life of the fetus is its own and viable and therefore subject to being protected by the state. In biblical times it was when the 'person' took it's first breath.
                      Define "generally"
                      That's what
                      - She

                      Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                      - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                      I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                      - Stephen R. Donaldson

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                        I read in the WaPo Express this morning that a Virginia doctor pled guilty to fetal homicide for slipping his pregnant g/f an abortifacient in her tea.
                        That would be an interesting case. If she WANTED the baby dead, it would be perfectly legal, but if she doesn't....
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          oh but that kind of dehumanization is OK because if they admit the baby is a person, then they would have to feel guilty. Can't have that.
                          It is not a "person" except in the minds of those with a religious agenda. “The brain pattern is the "person". When it goes you go and before it develops there is no "you".

                          Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                          Define "generally"
                          In this instance, "majority opinion".
                          “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                            It is not a "person" except in the minds of those with a religious agenda. “The brain pattern is the "person". When it goes you go and before it develops there is no "you".



                            In this instance, "majority opinion".
                            I am glad you are not the arbiter of who is a person Tassman. You would have made Hitler proud. You dismiss a baby as inhuman garbage to be disposed of on a whim, but get upset if Trump calls murdering gang members "animals"

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Tassman View Post

                              In this instance, "majority opinion".
                              You are wrong. Fetuses DO have legal protection.

                              https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1841
                              That's what
                              - She

                              Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                              - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                              I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                              - Stephen R. Donaldson

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                                You are wrong. Fetuses DO have legal protection.

                                https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1841
                                Wait! Tassman is WRONG??? This would be the FIRST TIME in the HISTORY of the WORLD!!!!
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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