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Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    You will have to show me where they had quite different moral values throughout history first. Also, an objective morality doesn't mean everyone follows it correctly. It just means that when they don't, there is a basis to call what they did "wrong" - The Nazis did not follow correct morality, so they were "evil" and "wrong" -- see? You can't say that though.
    Nor can you, unless you can identify what your objective morality actually says.
    Last edited by Roy; 06-21-2018, 06:41 AM.
    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

    MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
    MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

    seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

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    • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
      Nobody has disputed that human life begins at conception, that’s not the question. The question is why you arbitrarily define “personhood” as beginning at conception rather than more logically at fetal viability...or at birth?
      That is the point Tass, I don't define personhood, personhood it too arbitrary! As you have seen with those who support infanticide. A live, living, growing human is worthy of human rights. After all human rights are for humans, and that unborn child is a human.
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
        Just what is this "it" that needs to be followed correctly? What are the societies that have been based upon this immutable objective morality, have there been any? Or is it just a nice idea?
        "it" is "objective morality"

        And I said, it doesn't mean everyone follows it. It is the standard we all strive for. We know when something is good and when something is not. We don't always get it right, but overall, it is what you mean when you say things like society's morals are better today than 100 years ago. It is the standard we measure against to decide something is "better"

        God put this sense into everyone, but not everyone listens to it. You might think evolution did it. But even you believe it is there.

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        • Originally posted by Roy View Post
          Nor can you, unless you can identify what your objective morality actually says.
          I can.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
            Nor can you, unless you can identify what your objective morality actually says.
            I can.
            But you haven't, at least not here. Care to share it?
            Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

            MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
            MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

            seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Roy View Post
              But you haven't, at least not here. Care to share it?
              At the risk of being accused of arguing by weblink, most of it can be found here:

              https://www.biblegateway.com/

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                At the risk of being accused of arguing by weblink, most of it can be found here:

                https://www.biblegateway.com/
                A verse from a poem!!

                What does this have to do with objective morality? Can you can identify what your objective morality actually is or not. Waiting!
                “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by seer View Post
                  That is the point Tass, I don't define personhood, personhood it too arbitrary! As you have seen with those who support infanticide. A live, living, growing human is worthy of human rights. After all human rights are for humans, and that unborn child is a human.
                  Granting full human rights from conception onward, is NOT arbitrary you think? It is in fact. And what about the mother's human rights?
                  “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    At the risk of being accused of arguing by weblink, most of it can be found here:

                    https://www.biblegateway.com/
                    So not only is your objective morality internally inconsistent, vague and interpretable, it allows slavery, genocide, lapidation, rape, polygamy, concubinage and racism; is silent on unsafe construction, stem cell use, road safety, elections, intellectual property rights and gun possession; disallows eating scampi, divorce, religious freedom, working weekends and going bare-headed in church; and demands that post-menstruation women sacrifice pigeons.

                    It's also not objective.
                    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                    MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                    MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                    seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                      Granting full human rights from conception onward, is NOT arbitrary you think? It is in fact. And what about the mother's human rights?
                      Except, you are talking about her right to KILL the baby. If the right to LIFE is not the first and most important human right then you may as well throw them all out, because all other rights are based on life.
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                        A verse from a poem!!

                        What does this have to do with objective morality? Can you can identify what your objective morality actually is or not. Waiting!
                        I have no idea what you are talking about.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          I have no idea what you are talking about.
                          That link, for me, goes to Bible Gateway's verse of the day.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Roy View Post
                            So not only is your objective morality internally inconsistent, vague and interpretable, it allows slavery, genocide, lapidation, rape, polygamy, concubinage and racism; is silent on unsafe construction, stem cell use, road safety, elections, intellectual property rights and gun possession; disallows eating scampi, divorce, religious freedom, working weekends and going bare-headed in church; and demands that post-menstruation women sacrifice pigeons.

                            It's also not objective.
                            The bible reports historical events and actions. It doesn't always approve of them. It also contains commands and information on moral behavior and sinful behavior. It is not an instruction manual. God created the universe and it's rules. So what he says is moral is objective and affects everyone. You can doubt it all you want, but one day you will face him and answer for all of your actions. Good luck with mocking him.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              The bible reports historical events and actions. It doesn't always approve of them. It also contains commands and information on moral behavior and sinful behavior. It is not an instruction manual. God created the universe and it's rules. So what he says is moral is objective and affects everyone.
                              What ARE those "moral and objective rules", is the question not being answered. They seem to vary from age to age according to the prevailing social mores of the day.

                              You can doubt it all you want, but one day you will face him and answer for all of your actions. Good luck with mocking him.
                              Being good out of fear of punishment is the most juvenile, undeveloped level of moral development. You're putting God in the position of a scolding parent with us being no more than naughty children.
                              Last edited by Tassman; 06-22-2018, 11:59 PM.
                              “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by kiwimac View Post
                                No.
                                Yes - you mistook the clause for the definition.
                                "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                                "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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