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US interventionism in Israel and End Times (Poll)

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  • US interventionism in Israel and End Times (Poll)

    Simple question for the Christians here:

    Do you believe that the US's political actions in Israel have a significant role in facilitating the Biblical End Times prophesies?

    Or, to ask what I see as the same question a different way (let me know if you see the questions as different): Do your Christian beliefs motivate you to want to see the US intervene politically in Israel (in a way different to other countries)?


    P.S. This was inspired by seeing a news item that claimed a poll said a lot of evangelicals are enthused about Trump's Jerusalem embassy because they connect it to End Times prophesies. I was idly wondering what the skew is like with Christian participants of this forum in terms of views on Israel...
    13
    Yes, a lot
    0.00%
    0
    A little bit
    0.00%
    0
    No idea / No opinion / Maybe?
    15.38%
    2
    No
    84.62%
    11
    Last edited by Starlight; 05-14-2018, 06:42 PM.
    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

  • #2
    My Christian beliefs motivate me to want to not give foreign aid to Israel because they provide taxpayer funded abortions.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
      Do you believe that the US's political actions in Israel have a significant role in facilitating the Biblical End Times prophesies?
      I don't know.

      Or, to ask what I see as the same question a different way (let me know if you see the questions as different): Do your Christian beliefs motivate you to want to see the US intervene politically in Israel (in a way different to other countries)?
      Yes, I believe the Jews need and deserve a safe and defensible homeland.
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
        My Christian beliefs motivate me to want to not give foreign aid to Israel because they provide taxpayer funded abortions.
        But you would hold the same view for any other countries including Muslim ones, Christian ones etc. So while your Christianity informs your politics and political views in general, the question I'm getting at is is there anything unique about Israel in your politics as a result of your Christianity? e.g. is Israel "exceptional"? Do you want to see specific US interventions there as part of God's Plan? Does US foreign policy have a role in facilitating End Times Prophesies with regard to Israel? Is having the US embassy to Israel in Jerusalem "good" because of something in the book of Revelation? Is it important that other nations deal favorably with the Jews because they are God's Chosen People? Or should they deal particularly unfavorably with them because they are Killers of Christ? etc.
        Last edited by Starlight; 05-14-2018, 06:51 PM.
        "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
        "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
        "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by seer View Post
          Yes, I believe the Jews need and deserve a safe and defensible homeland.
          In a way that's different to other oppressed minority groups around the world? Do the Kurds need a safe and defensible homeland in exactly the same way? Do the Rohingya people of Myanmar? Or is your political opinion on Jews different to other peoples as a result of your Christian beliefs?
          "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
          "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
          "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Starlight View Post
            In a way that's different to other oppressed minority groups around the world? Do the Kurds need a safe and defensible homeland in exactly the same way? Do the Rohingya people of Myanmar? Or is your political opinion on Jews different to other peoples as a result of your Christian beliefs?

            Well when one these other peoples are gassed and put in the ovens by the MILLIONS, come and see me. BTW - I do believe that the Kurds should have their own homeland.
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Starlight View Post
              In a way that's different to other oppressed minority groups around the world? Do the Kurds need a safe and defensible homeland in exactly the same way? Do the Rohingya people of Myanmar? Or is your political opinion on Jews different to other peoples as a result of your Christian beliefs?
              The U.S. has a long-standing friendship with Israel. I suppose my Xian beliefs probably play some role in my wanting to support them, but I don't think that is my primary reason. However, my Xian beliefs are tightly integrated into who I am and how I think overall, so I can't really extract them and analyze them separately.

              I think we should probably do more for the Kurds, if nothing else because of promises we made to them under Bush 41. But that is not a huge deal to me.
              Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

              Beige Federalist.

              Nationalist Christian.

              "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

              Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

              Proud member of the this space left blank community.

              Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

              Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

              Justice for Matthew Perna!

              Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                Simple question for the Christians here:

                Do you believe that the US's political actions in Israel have a significant role in facilitating the Biblical End Times prophesies?
                I don't have a firm view of eschatology.


                Or, to ask what I see as the same question a different way (let me know if you see the questions as different): Do your Christian beliefs motivate you to want to see the US intervene politically in Israel (in a way different to other countries)?
                I'm not sure what "intervene politically" means. I take it this thread refers at least in part to the long-awaited moving of the embassy. IMO, the long-standing reluctance of the U.S. and all other nations to recognize the reality of Jerusalem being the capital of Israel -- despite the 1995 law passed by Congress -- was itself a political intervention in Israel's internal affairs.

                P.S. This was inspired by seeing a news item that claimed a poll said a lot of evangelicals are enthused about Trump's Jerusalem embassy because they connect it to End Times prophesies. I was idly wondering what the skew is like with Christian participants of this forum in terms of views on Israel...
                If I were the sort of Xian who approached prophecy with the so-called "Bible in one hand, newspaper in the other" method, I'd probably have mixed views, between the one you cite, and the possibility that this could be the antichrist making the treaty with Israel, only to break it a few years later.
                Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                Beige Federalist.

                Nationalist Christian.

                "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                Justice for Matthew Perna!

                Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  But you would hold the same view for any other countries including Muslim ones, Christian ones etc. So while your Christianity informs your politics and political views in general, the question I'm getting at is is there anything unique about Israel in your politics as a result of your Christianity? e.g. is Israel "exceptional"? Do you want to see specific US interventions there as part of God's Plan? Does US foreign policy have a role in facilitating End Times Prophesies with regard to Israel? Is having the US embassy to Israel in Jerusalem "good" because of something in the book of Revelation? Is it important that other nations deal favorably with the Jews because they are God's Chosen People? Or should they deal particularly unfavorably with them because they are Killers of Christ? etc.
                  I'm not sure about most of my views on eschatology but I do reject dispensationalism, so my main concern is that the Jewish race is at least allowed to continue to live freely. Given the existential threats to them uttered by various actors in the Middle East, this is not meaningless.
                  "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    Simple question for the Christians here:

                    Do you believe that the US's political actions in Israel have a significant role in facilitating the Biblical End Times prophesies?

                    Or, to ask what I see as the same question a different way (let me know if you see the questions as different): Do your Christian beliefs motivate you to want to see the US intervene politically in Israel (in a way different to other countries)?


                    P.S. This was inspired by seeing a news item that claimed a poll said a lot of evangelicals are enthused about Trump's Jerusalem embassy because they connect it to End Times prophesies. I was idly wondering what the skew is like with Christian participants of this forum in terms of views on Israel...
                    No. God doesn't need us clowns to defend Israel or usher in the end times.
                    "Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
                    Hear my cry, hear my shout,
                    Save me, save me"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      My Christianity is shared by a small minority of Palestinian Arabs, so no. Christians in Israel aren't treated especially well, and are only tolerated because pilgrims bring money and spend it.

                      That said, it's still easily the best government in the region (low bar, I know).
                      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                      sigpic
                      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        America's actions in the world have no bearing on the end times prophesied in the Bible. For one thing, most of those prophecies have already been fulfilled. See: partial preterism.
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I remember reading an argument somewhere that the only way that people can affect the timing of Jesus' return is to evangelize because the entire world must be evangelized before Jesus's return. I'm not sure this is sound but it would be a better use of time than trying to mess with sticky geopolitical situations.
                          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by guacamole View Post
                            No. God doesn't need us clowns to defend Israel or usher in the end times.
                            Well I would have thought so, but people from Bush W to Fox's Judge Jeanine, to something like 25% of the US population according to some polls, seem to think otherwise.
                            "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                            "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                            "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                              I remember reading an argument somewhere that the only way that people can affect the timing of Jesus' return is to evangelize because the entire world must be evangelized before Jesus's return. I'm not sure this is sound but it would be a better use of time than trying to mess with sticky geopolitical situations.
                              And is much more in line with the direct teachings of Christ.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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