View Poll Results: Does your Christianity lead you to want unique political interventions in Israel?

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  • A little bit

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  • No idea / No opinion / Maybe?

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  • No

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Thread: US interventionism in Israel and End Times (Poll)

  1. #31
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terraceth View Post
    The thing is... despite people claiming she did, she really didn't, at least if we're referring to this article. The supposed end time mention comes in an offhand remark at the end:

    "There will be no Ottoman empires or Shia nations that will destroy Jerusalem any longer. Donald Trump recognized history. He, like King Cyrus before him, fulfilled the biblical prophecy of the gods worshipped by Jews, Christians and, yes, Muslims, that Jerusalem is the eternal capital of the Jewish state and that the Jewish people deserve a righteous, free and sovereign Israel."

    The thing is, there's a mention of a prophecy (not sure which one?) but nothing mentioned about the end times. The point of the remark is just to draw a favorable comparison between Trump and Cyrus, not to make any prediction of the end of the world. I guess people just saw "biblical prophecy" and automatically conflated it with end times mania but there's nothing about that actually mentioned.
    It's a real worry when people start supporting international security based upon the alleged prophecies of a book of man-made myths and folk-lore deriving from the Bronze Age.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  2. #32
    tWebber Starlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    A 2-state solution was implemented back in 1948: Jews would get from the Jordan to the Mediterranean, and Arabs would get all of TransJordan, a significantly larger area. It wasn't "viable" because the Arabs demanded all of both sides of the river. The Palestinians still demand all of both sides of the river - except for the West Bank leadership, which pretends otherwise
    ???
    In the 2000 Camp David negotiations, the Palestinian negotiators' goal was to get themselves 22% of the territory that comprised historic Palestine (Gaza and the West Bank), and that they would let Israel have the remaining 78%. I am sure that if today's Palestinians could go back in time and accept some of the agreements earlier in the 20th century that offered them a lot more, they would. But all they're asking for today is one fifth of the total territory.

    (the last time the Palestinians were proffered 99% of what they said they wanted, the launched the Second Intifada in response
    What an absurd statement.

    Here's the BBC on the subject:
    The second Palestinian intifada or uprising broke out at the end of September 2000 and is named after the Jerusalem mosque complex where the violence began.

    Frustrations that years of the negotiation had failed to deliver a Palestinian state were intensified by the collapse of the Camp David summit in July 2000.

    Ariel Sharon, then the leader of Israel's opposition, paid a visit to the site in East Jerusalem known to Muslims as Haram al-Sharif, and to Jews as Temple Mount, which houses the al-Aqsa mosque - and frustration boiled over into violence.
    You make it sound like what happened was:
    Israel: "We make an offer of 99% of what you want"
    Palestinians: "You dare make us reasonable offers? WARRRR!!!"

    When what really happened was that Palestinians had wanted a state for years and tried and tried and tried to negotiate for one, and only after that failed did they have the uprising.

    There is no viable peace process, and there will not be until the Palestinians love their children more than they hate Israel.

    Palestinians don't love their children? Do you realize how insane you sound? That's up there with Ben Shapiro's claim that Arabs like to... live in open sewage.

  3. #33
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    We covered Israel/Palestine in History classes at my high school.
    I'm honestly surprised you would use this to justify a worldview.

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

  4. Amen Jedidiah amen'd this post.
  5. #34
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    You make it sound like what happened was:
    Israel: "We make an offer of 99% of what you want"
    Palestinians: "You dare make us reasonable offers? WARRRR!!!"
    The Palestinians didn't actually want reasonable offers, which is why they rejected it.
    Quote Originally Posted by OBP
    There is no viable peace process, and there will not be until the Palestinians love their children more than they hate Israel.

    Palestinians don't love their children? Do you realize how insane you sound?
    Do you realize that's not what I said? The rest of my sentence is not unimportant. Hamas (and Hezbollah) are more than willing to launch rockets from schools and hospitals, knowingly putting their children and vulnerable ones at risk. They're more than willing to use children as 'suicide' bombers. They teach their children hatred of Israel, perpetuating the cycle of hate.
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  6. Amen Cow Poke, RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  7. #35
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Do you realize that's not what I said? The rest of my sentence is not unimportant. Hamas (and Hezbollah) are more than willing to launch rockets from schools and hospitals, knowingly putting their children and vulnerable ones at risk. They're more than willing to use children as 'suicide' bombers. They teach their children hatred of Israel, perpetuating the cycle of hate.
    "Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us"

    Golda Meir as quoted in A Land of Our Own : An Oral Autobiography (1973) edited by Marie Syrkin, p. 242

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

  8. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  9. #36
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    That's up there with Ben Shapiro's claim that Arabs like to... live in open sewage.
    While that comment is a bit extreme, if you've ever been to Israel, you would see that the Israeli controlled sections are FAR more "neat and clean" than the "Palestinian" controlled sections. It's starkly apparent.

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

  10. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  11. #37
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    Palestinians don't love their children? Do you realize how insane you sound? That's up there with Ben Shapiro's claim that Arabs like to... live in open sewage.
    Ah, so the entire quote, from which you cherry picked, was "Israelis like to build. Arabs like to bomb crap and live in open sewage. This is not a difficult issue."

    Israelis like to build - check - Israelis are building all over Israel.
    Arabs like to bomb crap - check - missiles, rockets, suicide bombs...
    ...and live in open sewage - not so "check" () - I wouldn't say they LIKE to live in open sewage - the Arabs I talk to in Israel are very bitter about that - but it's their OWN GOVERNMENT that fails to provide clean water. When you go through the Arab-controlled sections of Israel, the Jews like to point out that nearly every house has it's own 'black barrel' on the roof, trying to provide their own water, because their government fails to do so.

    cisterns.jpg

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

  12. #38
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    I note you fail to state even a single thing that was wrong in my analysis (other than it not agreeing with your own misunderstanding of the situation).
    Yeah I have learned not to get sucked into your delusions and pretty much just tell you what a nut you are and move on. I have better things to do with my time.

    We covered Israel/Palestine in History classes at my high school. More recently I've listened to a lot of ex-Muslim and ex-Jewish US commentators on the subject. I feel I am well-versed on the history.
    I am sure you do.

  13. #39
    tWebber Starlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    While that comment is a bit extreme, if you've ever been to Israel, you would see that the Israeli controlled sections are FAR more "neat and clean" than the "Palestinian" controlled sections. It's starkly apparent.
    And from this you think it's reasonable to draw the conclusion that this isn't the result of decades of oppression and persecution, but rather that the people-group itself ('Arabs' as Shapiro put it) is deficient and incapable of managing themselves?

    Just to remind you, here's the city of Dubai that this deficient 'Arab' people group built in the United Arab Emerites:


    Here's their racial deficiency and incompetence as proven by the capital of Qatar:


    Do those various facts in your mind support the generalization that:
    Ben Shapiro:
    "Israelis like to build. Arabs like to bomb crap and live in open sewage. This is not a difficult issue. #settlementsrock"
    Do Arabs in general not like to build? Are they in general content with living in open sewage? Are they just a deficient people-group when it comes to construction compared to Jews? Or, perhaps has what has been done to the Arabs in Palestine terrible, leaving them with awful living conditions?

  14. #40
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    And from this you think it's reasonable to draw the conclusion that this isn't the result of decades of oppression and persecution, but rather that the people-group itself ('Arabs' as Shapiro put it) is deficient and incapable of managing themselves?

    Just to remind you, here's the city of Dubai that this deficient 'Arab' people group built in the United Arab Emerites:
    You've ignorantly created your own trap. If the Arabs are so "oppressed and persecuted", why don't these FILTHY RICH Arabs come to their aid?

    And, it's Emirates.

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

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