Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Trump and North Korea

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    OBP, the phrase "identity politics" gets flung around pretty much any time someone says "racism." It has become the universal mantra for denying there is a problem.
    You keep asserting this. Proving that it is so, not so much.
    For the record, I have no problem with people celebrating some aspect of their heritage. Our world is a blend of cultures, each with its own unique flavor, and worth celebrating and exploring. When that concept is extended to race, things get dicey. If race had never been an issue in human civilization, then it would be no different than ethnic celebrations.
    Race/ethnic - poTAYto, poTAHto.
    But race IS different because of the history. So now if we have "black pride month" the inevitable question arises: why can't we have "white pride month?" Well, there is very little history of blacks oppressing whites, and a LOT of history of whites oppressing blacks.
    No, my question is "why have black pride month"? Skin color should not be relevant.
    And there are still wide gaps between people by race. So emphasizing race is a problem.
    Did you leave out a negative here somewhere?
    It's why it's called "Black Lives Matter," and not "All Lives Matter."
    But all lives DO matter, Carpe.
    Imagine a school where most people have brown hair , and for years and years, a significant part of the brown-haired kids have been bullying the blond-haired kids. The brown-haired kids that are not bullying are also not rising up and saying much about it, except a few here and there. And almost all of the brown-haired kids are benefiting from the bullying. They get the best seats in the dining hall, the playground equipment at recess, etc. After years of bullying, the blond-haired kids begin a "Blond-haired people matter." Then the brown-haired kids say, "hey - it's not just you that matters - we matter too!" It's absolutely true that all kids matter. But the goal is to focus on a systemic injustice and say, "this bullying has to stop."

    That is what is going on today.
    Not today, or ever. You're not helping matters by playing revisionist history.
    That is how it is being felt and experienced on the black side of the line. But the white side of the line, especially the right, continually denies that systemic racism continues to exist in this country. I am the father of two black children. I can assure you it exists. Throughout the years of my boy's school experience, it was a continual struggle to sort out when the action was truly, intentionally racist, and when it was just kids picking on differences (like curly hair or the last zit). But it has been the adults that have been the biggest challenge.
    If you're having a difficult time seeing it, that's a sign it's not as prevalent as you imagine IMO.
    And this is the knee-jerk response I hear so often from the right. "Yeah - sounds bad, probably wasn't." I dug into this, so I invite you to do the same. It went as far as it did because it was a simple legislation to identify which types of ID could be used for voter registration. How could THAT be bad? The fact that the IDs used by minorities had been explicitly targeted came out as part of the legal process challenging the law.
    Not my response. You want to try again? You dug into this, but all you provided was your spin.
    The Democrats I talk to are for getting proper IDs in people's hands BEFORE the VoterID laws are changed, so no one is blocked from access to the voting booth.
    Why do I never seem to see that reported in the news?
    But every ID requires money, and the poor often can't pay that tab, which would require a program to make ID's universally available and affordable. But that smacks of a hand-out, so...round and round we go.
    IDs aren't that expensive, and there are programs to even assist with that. Rogue06 has documented this.
    And all of this is happening without any significant evidence that voter fraud is a problem that needs to be solved. The incidences of voter fraud are so small they are at percentage levels below bank fraud or healthcare fraud.
    You know bank fraud and healthcare fraud are not insignificant, right?

    And the right continually paints the left with "identity politics" and denials of racism existing because it plays well to theirs.
    Couldn't POSSIBLY be because it's true. I'm really not sure how it "plays well." One would think that actual racists would be proud of their race and own the charge.
    On this we couldn't agree more. I despise affirmative action. You cannot solve a racism problem with racist solutions. All it does is perpetuate the problem. Although I lean left socially, I am pretty far to the right on this issue, and I am a solid target of abuse from my left-leaning friends when the topic comes up. My wife's uncle bought the boys a subscription to "Black Enterprise" magazine. I would not allow it into the house. When I asked why, I asked my wife if she would be comfortable if the title of the magazine was "White Enterprise." I understand the history - and the desire of an oppressed race to reverse oppression and its effects. You do not achieve that by promoting a different kind of racism.
    This would seem to be in direct contradiction to your approval of "Black Pride Month".
    Originally posted by OBP
    Poverty and crime statistics track amazingly well with single-parent families.
    Correlation is not causation, OBP.
    Correlation is not NECESSARILY causation. In this case, however, common sense would seem to bear it out. Two incomes would make poverty rather less likely. A single working parent, especially, would have less opportunity for her (usually) to instill proper values in her children. I'd also argue that a child growing up seeing the give and take of a two-parent relationship is more likely to be able to successfully take part in one.
    You want the left to decry a group that stopped functioning 36 years ago (BPP)? This is the first I hear of La Raza and it has so many possible applications I have no idea what you're referring to.
    There's been a New BPP for years, Carpe.

    I'm rather surprised you've never heard of La Raza. Here is a derivation of the term:
    "The concept of La Raza can be traced to the ideas and writings of Jose Vasconcelos, the Mexican theorist who developed the theory of la raza cosmica (the cosmic or super race) at least partially as a minority reaction to the Nordic notions of racial superiority. Vasconelos developed a systematic theory which argued that climatic and geographic conditions and mixture of Spanish and Indian races created a superior race. The concept of La Raza connotes that the mestizo [of mixed race, usually the child of a person of Spanish descent and an American Indian] is a distinct race and not Caucasian, as is technically the case."
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
    sigpic
    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

    Comment


    • The scenario that is falling into line now is that Kim wants get respectability and recognition by meeting with leaders of state of major powers, and not a genuine interest in actually negotiating the giving up his nuclear weapons, which in a way goes along with the history of his father and grandfather.

      Trump may be getting suckered into this big time.
      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

      go with the flow the river knows . . .

      Frank

      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
        The scenario that is falling into line now is that Kim wants get respectability and recognition by meeting with leaders of state of major powers, and not a genuine interest in actually negotiating the giving up his nuclear weapons, which in a way goes along with the history of his father and grandfather.

        Trump may be getting suckered into this big time.
        That's entirely possible. Or, there might actually be progress.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • Ya know, I came really close this morning to jokingly suggesting that Dennis Rodman be at the summit, but....

          Dennis Rodman will be in Singapore for Trump-Kim summit

          Who knew!!!
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • On Netflix's "The Break with Michelle Wolf" they asked the audience the question "Are You Sort Of Hoping We Don't Get Peace With North Korea So You Wouldn't Have To Give Trump Credit?"

            71% said yes.

            It is pretty difficult to find anything on this but here is a video clip that I'm not directly linking to due to the use of a naughty word for the rectum https://twitter.com/BrentHBaker/status/1003709048557064199

            Bill Maher on HBO hopes for economic disaster for the U.S. purely because that would hurt Trump and these idiots would rather see a nuclear armed North Korea than Trump get any credit for disarmament









            Increasingly unhinged folks.
            Last edited by rogue06; 06-16-2018, 07:47 AM.

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • I'd be happy to see Trump pull off a peace treaty and a nuclear disarmament of North Korea. If he manages it, I'll give him full credit. I may think he's delusional, but that doesn't mean I think he can't do some good things.
              Middle-of-the-road swing voter. Feel free to sway my opinion.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                Ok, here's a challenge for you. Find a speech where Obama did not do that. Should be easy, if he only did it "sometimes."
                That one's easy. Obama spoke at UVM in his last couple of years in office. His speech was about the challenges of the modern era, and the challenges America faces in the coming years.

                Also, Obama spoke often about the accomplishments of the administrative and legislative team. He was not beyond tooting his own horn, but it was the exception to the rule - not the rule. Trump does it each and every speech I have seen, in any context.
                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  It is racist to assume that black people don't have ID's.

                  No one said they don't have IDs. The NC law was struck down specifically because the Republican party asked for information about what IDs voters were using, broken down by race. Then they explicitly went after the IDs predominantly used by minorities and sought to have them excluded. This led to the description of their effort as "surgically aimed to minorities."
                  The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                  I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                    You keep asserting this. Proving that it is so, not so much.

                    Race/ethnic - poTAYto, poTAHto.

                    No, my question is "why have black pride month"? Skin color should not be relevant.

                    Did you leave out a negative here somewhere?

                    But all lives DO matter, Carpe.

                    Not today, or ever. You're not helping matters by playing revisionist history.

                    If you're having a difficult time seeing it, that's a sign it's not as prevalent as you imagine IMO.

                    Not my response. You want to try again? You dug into this, but all you provided was your spin.

                    Why do I never seem to see that reported in the news?

                    IDs aren't that expensive, and there are programs to even assist with that. Rogue06 has documented this.

                    You know bank fraud and healthcare fraud are not insignificant, right?


                    Couldn't POSSIBLY be because it's true. I'm really not sure how it "plays well." One would think that actual racists would be proud of their race and own the charge.

                    This would seem to be in direct contradiction to your approval of "Black Pride Month".

                    Correlation is not NECESSARILY causation. In this case, however, common sense would seem to bear it out. Two incomes would make poverty rather less likely. A single working parent, especially, would have less opportunity for her (usually) to instill proper values in her children. I'd also argue that a child growing up seeing the give and take of a two-parent relationship is more likely to be able to successfully take part in one.

                    There's been a New BPP for years, Carpe.

                    I'm rather surprised you've never heard of La Raza. Here is a derivation of the term:
                    "The concept of La Raza can be traced to the ideas and writings of Jose Vasconcelos, the Mexican theorist who developed the theory of la raza cosmica (the cosmic or super race) at least partially as a minority reaction to the Nordic notions of racial superiority. Vasconelos developed a systematic theory which argued that climatic and geographic conditions and mixture of Spanish and Indian races created a superior race. The concept of La Raza connotes that the mestizo [of mixed race, usually the child of a person of Spanish descent and an American Indian] is a distinct race and not Caucasian, as is technically the case."
                    I have neither the time nor inclination to trace through all of this. From my perspective, it is an marvelous example of the ongoing problem with the right recognizing that racial inequality and disenfranchisement is alive and well in the U.S. of A. In my experience, no amount of evidence will counter that perspective. It's sad - because there remains a great deal of work to be done. The right will either join in and be part of the solution, or they will be marginalized as the rest of us work to solve the problems.
                    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                    Comment


                    • So apparently Shep Smith did a segment on Fox where he told viewers the truth that Trump had gotten nothing from the NK summit other than giving away his bargaining chips in exchange for empty promises. Fox News viewers were apparently not at all pleased to be exposed to that level of reality so he's gotten a lot of hate for it, including anti-gay slur words like f_____t.
                      "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                      "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                      "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                      Comment


                      • Shep marches to his own drum. That's not a bad thing.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          So apparently Shep Smith did a segment on Fox where he told viewers the truth that Trump had gotten nothing from the NK summit other than giving away his bargaining chips in exchange for empty promises. Fox News viewers were apparently not at all pleased to be exposed to that level of reality so he's gotten a lot of hate for it, including anti-gay slur words like f_____t.
                          Pretty much destroys the myth that Fox is completely in the tank for Trump. Chris Wallace is another one who isn't very fond of Trump.

                          Coincidentally, they are the two primary news anchors there.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            Pretty much destroys the myth that Fox is completely in the tank for Trump. Chris Wallace is another one who isn't very fond of Trump.

                            Coincidentally, they are the two primary news anchors there.
                            It's pretty hard, even for Fox, to pretend that Trump got something substantive out of the deal. There's no proof that Nth Korea will follow up on its promises to “work toward the complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.” North Korea has made similar promises to the previous three US administrations, and each time it has reneged. Furthermore Trump has betrayed the US's South Korean ally by giving up the joint military exercises, which is precisely what Kim AND China have both been after for ages, and got nothing in return.
                            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                              It's pretty hard, even for Fox, to pretend that Trump got something substantive out of the deal. There's no proof that Nth Korea will follow up on its promises to “work toward the complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.” North Korea has made similar promises to the previous three US administrations, and each time it has reneged. Furthermore Trump has betrayed the US's South Korean ally by giving up the joint military exercises, which is precisely what Kim AND China have both been after for ages, and got nothing in return.
                              The military exercises are not "we have to do it this week or we can never do them again". They can be back on again if and when they are authorized.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                The military exercises are not "we have to do it this week or we can never do them again". They can be back on again if and when they are authorized.
                                IIRC the next exercise was not scheduled until the Spring of 2019 so putting it on hold now is hardly much of a concession.

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by little_monkey, Yesterday, 04:19 PM
                                16 responses
                                110 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post One Bad Pig  
                                Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                                53 responses
                                307 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Mountain Man  
                                Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                                25 responses
                                111 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                                33 responses
                                196 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Roy
                                by Roy
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                                84 responses
                                357 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post JimL
                                by JimL
                                 
                                Working...
                                X