Originally posted by carpedm9587
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Apologetics 301 Guidelines
If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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Thoughts go out.... Why?
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Thoughts go out.... Why?
Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologistTags: None
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It's a nice way of saying that he cares, that's all."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostThis sounds nice and all, but it doesn't even pretend to do anything. It's like slapping a "Free Tibet" bumper sticker on your car; all it does is make you feel better. At least prayer is ostensibly an attempt to help by entreating a higher power. Thoughts? Not even you think they accomplish squat.“I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
“And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
“not all there” - you know who you are
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostIt's a nice way of saying that he cares, that's all.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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… unless it is a plea for your own strength and endurance as you walk towards the disaster area to give your personal assistance.“I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
“And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
“not all there” - you know who you are
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostThis sounds nice and all, but it doesn't even pretend to do anything. It's like slapping a "Free Tibet" bumper sticker on your car; all it does is make you feel better. At least prayer is ostensibly an attempt to help by entreating a higher power. Thoughts? Not even you think they accomplish squat.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by firstfloor View PostPrayer is pretending to pass the buck while tossing it out of the window.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by firstfloor View Post… unless it is a plea for your own strength and endurance as you walk towards the disaster area to give your personal assistance.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View Posta plea to whom?“I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
“And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
“not all there” - you know who you are
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I don't think you should say "prayers for..." unless you actually are praying for them. And most of the time when people saying that, I suspect they're saying it for show which Jesus spoke about in the Sermon on the Mount. Don't talk about praying, just pray.
(Obviously this doesn't apply in cases like where a pastor is making a public statement on behalf of their church, or a president addressing the nation in the wake of a tragedy.)"I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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To me "thoughts" comes across as much more empathetic and compassionate than "prayers".
"Prayers" signals:
1. I am pushing my religion in your direction. This can be offensive if the recipient is not the same religion as the offerer. As an atheist I do find it offensive myself when someone offers "prayers" in my direction. If they are trying to help by doing this, it is certainly not helpful to tell me that that is what they are doing.
2. I am not going to (a) think about what I might do to help you; (b) feel compassion or empathy; but I am going to (c) pass the buck to someone who, if he exists, has already failed to intervene to prevent the problem in the first place.
By contrast "thoughts" signals:
1. I am a kind person who has concerns about you in my heart and I respect your situation and will reflect on it with compassion and love. Somebody cares: You're not alone in this.
2. I will consider your situation further with a view to thinking about what possible actions I might be able to take to help.
3. Keep me posted with regard to further updates there is the possibility of intervention and assistance from my end, if and when appropriate.
For those reasons I would always prefer "thoughts" to "prayers"."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostTo me "thoughts" comes across as much more empathetic and compassionate than "prayers".
"Prayers" signals:
1. I am pushing my religion in your direction. This can be offensive if the recipient is not the same religion as the offerer. As an atheist I do find it offensive myself when someone offers "prayers" in my direction. If they are trying to help by doing this, it is certainly not helpful to tell me that that is what they are doing.
2. I am not going to (a) think about what I might do to help you; (b) feel compassion or empathy; but I am going to (c) pass the buck to someone who, if he exists, has already failed to intervene to prevent the problem in the first place.
By contrast "thoughts" signals:
1. I am a kind person who has concerns about you in my heart and I respect your situation and will reflect on it with compassion and love. Somebody cares: You're not alone in this.
2. I will consider your situation further with a view to thinking about what possible actions I might be able to take to help.
3. Keep me posted with regard to further updates there is the possibility of intervention and assistance from my end, if and when appropriate.
For those reasons I would always prefer "thoughts" to "prayers".
1. Starlight doesn’t understand prayer at all.
2. Shows his hatred of Christians/Christianity yet again."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostNot surprising that:
1. Starlight doesn’t understand prayer at all.
2. Shows his hatred of Christians/Christianity yet again."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostI don't think you should say "prayers for..." unless you actually are praying for them.
That does a number of things...
A) They know for a fact that, at least that ONE TIME, I did pray for them.
2) It better cements it in my mind, making it more likely I'll pray for them in the future.
C) If they weren't sincere about me praying for them, and that was just their way of complaining, they won't bother asking me in the future.
That last one sounds a little cold, but I take prayer seriously, and don't see it as an excuse to gripe or complain.
I agree that, too many times, "I'll pray for you" can be an empty promise.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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