Announcement

Collapse

Apologetics 301 Guidelines

If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you


This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.


Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Atheistic morality: Is harm to animals on a continuum with harm to humans?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #91
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Ya know, for somebody who moaned and groaned about emojis, you sure do use them a lot.
    Only with you
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      OK, so clue me in.

      How much money is enough?
      Let me see...I think $12,325.76 should do it...

      I would consider this a useless question. It's like asking the guy at Home Depot, "how much paint is enough" when they know little/nothing about the size of the house.

      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      What do we spend it on?
      Right now, the one thing we do know is that we need to push forward the renewable energy sector and bring to a close the fossil fuels sector. As with any other shift, that is going to benefit some and hurt others. I would say a good first start would be to 1) fund research into renewable options, and 2) start bringing renewable manufacturing specifically to those locations most dependent on jobs related to fossil fuels (e.g., mining towns, oil production/refinery locations, etc.). Put the U.S. on the map as a major source of renewables, ensuring our ability to export when this industry takes over and the fossil fuels industry inevitably dies.

      Meanwhile, the biggest energy consumer in our country (the federal and state and city governments) can begin pushing purchases towards renewables, which will have the effect of further depressing their price (e.g., economies of scale and all that).

      Coastal cities should continue (or start) doing what Miami and NYC are already doing: pushing forward city planning that incorporates planning for further sea level rise. The science on that one is pretty conclusive; we've pushed this off too long to prevent significant sea level rise in the next 100 years. That doesn't mean "moving buildings" but it may include new zoning to prevent additional, vulnerable coastal construction.

      Finally, the government should get out of the funding of flood insurance for any new low-lying buildings, or fund it in line with revised actuarial tables. As buildings in vulnerable areas are destroyed by incident, or simply "age out," their replacement should be prevented or (at the very least) insurance funding denied.

      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      How much government expansion is needed?
      I don't see why this necessarily entails any government expansion whatsoever. Cities already have planning commissions. The government already purchases energy and simply needs redirect it. The government already funds research and simply needs redirect (possibly expand) it. And encouraging the growth of an industry can be done with tax incentives, purchase contracts, and marketing campaigns.

      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      What, exactly, will all that accomplish?
      An expedited shift from fossil fuels to renewables; enhanced protection for coastal cities; ensured participation in an industry that will, inevitably, replace the fossil-fuels industry, and energy independence for our country.

      Michel
      Last edited by carpedm9587; 05-26-2018, 08:25 AM.
      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by Tassman View Post
        So you would agree
        Why is it that whenever you start a sentence with "So you would agree", it's a sign that you're about to say something really really stupid.

        with well-known intellectual Sarah Palin that “these global warming studies that now we're seeing are a bunch of snake oil science."
        Never said that, don't believe that. I think you've scrambled your brain, Tass - but you can always blame that on climate change, I suppose.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          And then there were the dinosaurs!
          I mean really - can you imagine stalking a brontosaurus, approaching it stealthily from the rear when, all of a sudden....



          ....BBBBRRRRRRRAAAAAAATTTTTTT.........
          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
            I would consider this a useless question. It's like asking the guy at Home Depot, "how much paint is enough" when they know little/nothing about the size of the house.
            No, not even close... It says right on the can "covers 400 sq ft" or whatever, we can measure the walls, we know exactly what it's going to cost per gallon..... and it's not difficult at all to extrapolate that into a cost. It's a totally silly analogy, because the homeowner knows what they want to paint, and even if it takes a trip home to measure it, it's an easily accomplished deal.

            The rest of your post could have better been replaced with "I really don't know".
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
              I mean really - can you imagine stalking a brontosaurus, approaching it stealthily from the rear when, all of a sudden....



              ....BBBBRRRRRRRAAAAAAATTTTTTT.........
              Here lies Og, Blasted by Bronto Butt.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                Here lies Og, Blasted by Bronto Butt.
                I would think that would be better than being Totaled by a Tyranno Turd
                Last edited by carpedm9587; 05-26-2018, 09:29 AM.
                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                  I would think that would be better than being Totaled by a Tyrannosaurus Turd
                  I don't know, the brontosaurus might be closer to this.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                    I don't know, the brontosaurus might be closer to this.

                    Love it...
                    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      No, not even close... It says right on the can "covers 400 sq ft" or whatever, we can measure the walls, we know exactly what it's going to cost per gallon..... and it's not difficult at all to extrapolate that into a cost. It's a totally silly analogy, because the homeowner knows what they want to paint, and even if it takes a trip home to measure it, it's an easily accomplished deal.
                      So you seem to have missed the part of my post where I said, "when they know little/nothing about the size of the house." Clearly, once the Home Depot guy knows the details about the size of the house, he can work out the cost. Likewise, when we know the details of the impacts of climate change on our planet, we'll know what the bill is likely to be. Unfortunately, models don't provide that sense of detail. There are so many variables it's like trying to predict the path of a hurricane. In the near term, next few hours, it's reasonably easy to predict. As we go forward in time, the number of variables and their possible values increases and makes specifics hard to pin down, so the predictions become "wider." Likewise, we know sea levels are rising, we know they are going to continue to rise. We know storm intensity is likely to increase, and coastal storms to become more common. But exactly how common, how strong, where they will hit, how they will impact infrastructure...not so easy to predict. Cost, ergo, is likewise not so easy to predict.

                      We do know this much - what we do not spend on prevention, we are likely to spend on disaster recovery and clean-up. In general, the cost to clean and rebuild usually exceed the costs to prevent.

                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      The rest of your post could have better been replaced with "I really don't know".
                      Wow... well thought-out response. Based on this, I conclude that your initial questions were not actually serious or looking to engage in conversation. My response actually was. My mistake.

                      Note-to-self: remember not to waste time framing answers to questions posted by CP.
                      Last edited by carpedm9587; 05-26-2018, 09:55 AM.
                      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        I think the solution is already doing itself. As we naturally switch over to electric cars, improve battery and solar power technology, most of the causes of pollution will diminish which should stop any further global warming due to fossil fuels right? And such technological advances will happen whether global warming is true or not.
                        Some current trends will contribute to a solution to the problem, if there is a problem. That does not justify ignoring people who say the current trends are insufficient to prevent a catastrophe.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Doug Shaver
                          That's the liberal solution.

                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          You're good with that?
                          Did I say I was a liberal? I don't consider myself one.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                            Given that "the majority" comprises the vast majority of climate scientists warning us of the dire consequences of human induced climate change, it's more than a mere academic exercise.
                            Those academic exercises are necessary if we're to get past appeals to authority and "if you care, you will believe."

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                              So you seem to have missed the part of my post where I said, "when they know little/nothing about the size of the house."
                              No, I did NOT miss that part of the post, or I wouldn't have said... "because the homeowner knows what they want to paint, and even if it takes a trip home to measure it, it's an easily accomplished deal".
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                                Wow... well thought-out response.
                                Sure, but it doesn't even approach answering the quesiton.

                                Based on this, I conclude that your initial questions were not actually serious or looking to engage in conversation.
                                And you would be wrong - I just want REAL answers, not "well thought out empty ones".

                                My response actually was. My mistake.

                                Note-to-self: remember not to waste time framing answers to questions posted by CP.
                                I don't know why it's so difficult for so many smart people to admit "I really don't know".
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by whag, Yesterday, 03:01 PM
                                39 responses
                                158 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post whag
                                by whag
                                 
                                Started by whag, 03-17-2024, 04:55 PM
                                21 responses
                                129 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Hypatia_Alexandria  
                                Started by whag, 03-14-2024, 06:04 PM
                                80 responses
                                426 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post tabibito  
                                Started by whag, 03-13-2024, 12:06 PM
                                45 responses
                                303 views
                                1 like
                                Last Post Hypatia_Alexandria  
                                Working...
                                X