MS13 - Animals?

[Cow Poke]

You could just google for video footage of it, there's plenty in general. Forum rules probably prevent me linking to what is pretty disturbing and graphic stuff.

That is such a dodge.... I want to know your specific source - I want to see it myself. You could PM me the link, or you could post the disclaimer that there's graphic content.

[Starlight]

We don't actually know that, because there is absolutely no way to know what crimes they have committed for which they have not been charged and/or convicted. So, the rest of your rant is just that.

Immigrant crimes rates are a hugely studied phenomena around the world, because a lot of people have concerns about it. And while, yes, there are a number of factors that make it difficult to study, a lot of effort has been put in by a lot of smart people worldwide to study it as best it possibly can be studied. And the answer, pretty much no matter the country, is that immigrants commit crimes at a much lower rate than natives, but that the native-born children of immigrants are on par with natives.

[Cow Poke]

Immigrant crimes rates are a hugely studied phenomena around the world, because a lot of people have concerns about it. And while, yes, there are a number of factors that make it difficult to study, a lot of effort has been put in by a lot of smart people worldwide to study it as best it possibly can be studied. And the answer, pretty much no matter the country, is that immigrants commit crimes at a much lower rate than natives, but that the native-born children of immigrants are on par with natives.

Let's see... "hugely studied", "a lot of effort", "smart people"..... No. You're just flat out wrong on this - I don't care how many "studies" there are, you're not going to get illegal aliens to come forward and admit that they committed crimes for which they have not been arrested. That's just dumb. Wacky. Starlightish!

[lilpixieofterror]

Let's see... "hugely studied", "a lot of effort", "smart people"..... No. You're just flat out wrong on this - I don't care how many "studies" there are, you're not going to get illegal aliens to come forward and admit that they committed crimes for which they have not been arrested. That's just dumb. Wacky. Starlightish!

It’s how ‘smart people’ work. You find data that agrees with what you want to believe and ignore that your data is far from conclusive. We don’t hear about the nature of these crimes nor do we hear about who never showed up. Thus he can make the conclusions he so desperately wants to believe.

[Cow Poke]

It’s how ‘smart people’ work. You find data that agrees with what you want to believe and ignore that your data is far from conclusive. We don’t hear about the nature of these crimes nor do we hear about who never showed up. Thus he can make the conclusions he so desperately wants to believe.

On top of that, the Uniform Crime Report system run by the FBI is seriously flawed. It's entirely run by "classifications" of crimes, and a local police chief or sheriff can have his people "classify" crimes into whatever category fits their narrative. If they want to show that "violent crimes are down" during their administration, they can have their UCR person classify violent crimes as less severe offenses. It happens all the time. Our own city council was wanting us to take all instances of "aggravated offense" reports, and remove the "aggravated", so it appeared "more safe" in our community.

But if they're applying for federal grants to combat serious crime, or want to qualify for some of the "miitarized" equipment, they need to show violent crimes are up!

Part of this is spurred on by all the realtor websites which include, as part of their sales pitch, the criminal incidents pinpointed on the maps of the neighborhood you're looking at.

[seer]

Given immigrants, both legal an illegal, seem to commit less crime than the average American, if you're worried about your own crime rates you should import more immigrants to dilute the crimes of your present population among more people and thus lower the crime rate and victimization rate.

That is just stupid. If you didn't have illegals you would not have the percentage of crime they bring.

[Starlight]

That is just stupid. If you didn't have illegals you would not have the percentage of crime they bring.

I take it math is not your strong suit. If you have a populace committing lots of crimes per person, and you import people who don't commit many crimes per person, then you have lowered the average number of crimes per person committed.

[Cow Poke]

I take it math is not your strong suit. If you have a populace committing lots of crimes per person, and you import people who don't commit many crimes per person, then you have lowered the average number of crimes per person committed.

I take it word problems are not your strong suit. Again, there is no proof that illegal immigrants commit fewer crimes. In fact, it's true that they all have committed at least one! Your "logic" is batpoop nutty.

[Starlight]

Again, there is no proof that illegal immigrants commit fewer crimes.

What you mean is that after thinking about it for about a minute you personally can't think of a good methodology for doing a study because you think that measuring convictions wouldn't always be a great methodology so you think the particular study MM cited is flawed. What you seem to fail to realize that there are all sorts of other ways of doing studies, ranging from polling people in different areas about how often people they've been victims of crime, to looking at homicide rates in areas with 100% homicide clear-up rates where all perpetrators are known.

This meta-study surveys 51 different studies done internationally and cross-compares their different methodologies and findings. It concludes that, on average throughout the world, immigrants tend to lower the rate of crime slightly. However, you'll be pleased to see that they note that it's difficult to separated undocumented immigrants from documented immigrants in terms of data categories and it's much easier to just measure how much crime is being committed by immigrants in general.

[Cow Poke]

What you mean is that after thinking about it for about a minute....

You REALLY need to stop pretending you're a mindreader. You really suck at it.

[Cow Poke]

...they note that it's difficult to separated undocumented immigrants from documented immigrants in terms of data categories and it's much easier to just measure how much crime is being committed by immigrants in general.

"Undocumented" immigrants is PC-speak for "illegal alien". 100% of illegal aliens have committed at least one crime by definition.

Since NOBODY here has expressed opposition to LEGAL immigration, your whole "methodology" nonsense is useless.

But do try again!

[KingsGambit]

"Undocumented" immigrants is PC-speak for "illegal alien". 100% of illegal aliens have committed at least one crime by definition.

Since NOBODY here has expressed opposition to LEGAL immigration, your whole "methodology" nonsense is useless.

But do try again!

I think you have to be consciously aware of doing something wrong for me to be comfortable saying somebody is "committing a crime". I'm not going to ding somebody who was brought here at age two.

[Cow Poke]

I think you have to be consciously aware of doing something wrong for me to be comfortable saying somebody is "committing a crime". I'm not going to ding somebody who was brought here at age two.

That's certainly a factor worth considering, and is part of the reason we need actual comprehensive immigration reform.

[rogue06]

I was trying to be sarcastic and ironic.



And thank you for commenting on my lack of not being on his level.

To reach that you'll need one of these:

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[Starlight]

Since NOBODY here has expressed opposition to LEGAL immigration

Quite a lot of posters have expressed a desire to lower the number of legal immigrants, and I recall someone suggesting it might be worth temporarily reducing legal immigration to zero them to allow for assimilation of current immigrants before getting more.