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MS13 - Animals?

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  • #91
    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
    By "Latino groups", do you specifically mean MS-13?
    As I have mentioned already in this thread, Trump's comment in context was waffle about unspecified baddies. Some people in this thread have brought up MS-13. Posters in this forum tend to get quite enthusiastic when speaking against illegal (latino) immigrants, or (latino) immigrants in general. Trump's election comments, of course, were famous broad brush strokes against latino immigrants. In the US, Muslims and African Americans also tend to be common targets of dehumanizing language in the public sphere. I think it's deplorable (ironic Hillary reference intended).
    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      It wasn't racist. It was commentary grounded in the fact that those in the country illegally are considerably more likely to commit violent crimes.
      "Some are, I assume" pretty much minimizes the existence of any who aren't, and implies they might not exist. It's definitely racist.
      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        It was commentary grounded in the fact that those in the country illegally are considerably more likely to commit violent crimes.
        Where did you make up that claim from? When I google that, all the top hits are analyses that find that illegal immigrants commit less violent crime. That's hardly surprising because they know they have to stay below the police radar in order to stay in the country, so they have to be on their best behavior.
        "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
        "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
        "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
          As I have mentioned already in this thread, Trump's comment in context was waffle about unspecified baddies. Some people in this thread have brought up MS-13.
          Considering he made the comment in direct response to a concern raised about MS-13, the context seems pretty clear to me, and claiming that it's just "some people here" claiming it it is disengenous.
          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
            "Some are, I assume" pretty much minimizes the existence of any who aren't, and implies they might not exist. It's definitely racist.
            Not really. Crime stats are on Trump's side on this one.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              Not really. Crime stats are on Trump's side on this one.
              The idea that virtually all such immigrants commit violent crimes?
              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                Considering he made the comment in direct response to a concern raised about MS-13, the context seems pretty clear to me, and claiming that it's just "some people here" claiming it it is disengenous.
                Well the people here who are wrong in their interpretation are just repeating what they've heard from the right-wing fake-news-o-sphere. The more mainstream media doesn't seem to be buying that creative reinterpretation.

                But I guess maybe this is just one of those ink blot things where different people see it differently.
                "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  Well the people here who are wrong in their interpretation are just repeating what they've heard from the right-wing fake-news-o-sphere. The more mainstream media doesn't seem to be buying that creative reinterpretation.

                  But I guess maybe this is just one of those ink blot things where different people see it differently.
                  Quite a few non-right leaning news sources (I acknowledge you think that mainstream news sources in the US are right leaning, but for the purposes of this discussion, let's go with "not openly supportive of Trump") retracted their original reporting that the context was all immigrants.
                  "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    Well the people here who are wrong in their interpretation are just repeating what they've heard from the right-wing fake-news-o-sphere.
                    Actually, I cited a NYT article - you're now claiming they're fake news?
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                      . . . Posters in this forum tend to get quite enthusiastic when speaking against illegal (latino) immigrants, or (latino) immigrants in general. . . . .
                      Unless you have some examples of posters here speaking out against legal immigrants, I will take this as an example of your dishonesty.
                      Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                        Unless you have some examples of posters here speaking out against legal immigrants, I will take this as an example of your dishonesty.
                        Last I looked it was a fairly common position among US conservatives to want less immigrants in general and, as Trump put it, to wish for more Norwegian ones, and less other kinds of ones, and in general have a view of Mexican immigrants along the lines of, as Trump put it, "they're not sending their best". Are you saying this has changed? Or that no poster here ever advocated for that or anything close to it?

                        Your post is such a joke I have to think you're a completely dishonest person, especially given you project your dishonesty onto brutally honest people such as myself.
                        "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                        "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                        "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          Last I looked it was a fairly common position among US conservatives to want less immigrants in general and, as Trump put it, to wish for more Norwegian ones, and less other kinds of ones, and in general have a view of Mexican immigrants along the lines of, as Trump put it, "they're not sending their best". Are you saying this has changed? Or that no poster here ever advocated for that or anything close to it?
                          You said "posters in this forum", not "conservatives in general". I wouldn't be surprised if you found something (we've had some pretty blatant racists on here), but let's take care not to move the goalposts.
                          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                            CMD, you're comparing an injury to one (deserving of critique) person, with promoting the habit of tarring whole (potentially deserving of critique) groups as sub-human.

                            1. Obviously injury of a single deserving person is deserved. And while extra-judicial justice is potentially a problem (and currently is with regard to US police actions in shooting first, then second... then 40th), extrajudicial justice against neo-nazis has never been a serious issue in the US either in the past or present, even when the KKK were rampant.

                            2. However, America currently has a huge issue with mistreatment of groups judged to be sub-human or undeserving of basic human rights. And dehumanizing language plays into that immensely, especially when done by those in positions of power. Once people are labeled as sub-human, that is then used to 'justify' the mistreatments of them that follow. In the US that spans the range from illegal police profiling and crack-downs to actual torture programs that murder innocent people through torture.

                            The US has a big big problem with the second issue, and it does not have a problem with the first issue. So the one is much worse than the other both in current context and in number of people affected.

                            It is also amusing to see how many 'Christians' here come rushing to the defense of neo-nazis while getting enthusiastic at the thought of slandering and critiquing Latino groups. It's quite telling who they see as their people. Not surprising they voted for Trump of "They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people." fame.
                            MS-13 is a group of violent gang members that have to tortured, raped, and murdered tens of thousands of people that make Neo-Nazi’s pretty tame in comparison. The fact you mindlessly defend them says your hate for Trump over-rides all sense.
                            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              Which is something Trump never actually said, even though the mainstream media sure has low-info morons like you fooled.
                              Yes Trump said it. Trump is deliberately “blurring the lines” with the intent of criminalising entire groups of people in the minds of “low information" racists like you, who hear what they want to hear. Isn’t that one of the key reasons you voted for him?
                              Last edited by Tassman; 05-21-2018, 11:42 PM.
                              “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                                Last I looked it was a fairly common position among US conservatives to want less immigrants in general and, as Trump put it, to wish for more Norwegian ones, and less other kinds of ones
                                And Asians -- the other group he specifically mentioned but the left always exclude for some strange reason.

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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