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  • #46
    Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
    How is it cynical to vote for a candidate that is a noisy jerk, but supports the causes we care about, rather than a candidate that is a more sneaky and subtle jerk, and supports causes we find utterly despicable?
    Because Tassman's foolish dark heart is filled with hatred.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      Maybe somebody should tell Hillary that we did take back our country when we chose President Trump to help us Make America Great AgainTM.

      In fact, you elected another Nixon.
      “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
      “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
      “not all there” - you know who you are

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Tassman View Post
        Trump "comes across" as an immoral, lying charlatan is because that's precisely what he is. What you see is what you get. Much of what he "gets done", such as the appointment of Conservative judges to implement a minority agenda...such as anti-abortion and LGBT rights...as well as gutting the Environmental Protection Agency etc reveals the deep cynicism of the Evangelical Right who, it seems, will stop at nothing to get their own way.
        While a few decades ago a majority of Americans deemed themselves pro-abortion with only about a third considering themselves pro-life that has change dramatically since then with the numbers reaching a parity since 2010. Further, Americans have always wanted abortion regulated and have rejected what the abortion-on-demand mentality foisted by the left that has brought us including such horrors as partial-birth abortion and now straight-out undeniable infanticide what with "after-birth abortions" being supported in some quarters.

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
          Hang on -- The fact that the Constitution itself provides for emendation shows that wanting to "change" it cannot in and of itself be "unamerican." The whole point of being able to alter it is that after some length of time, parts of it cease to fit society. By far my main complaint is with those many who try to weasel around the difficult challenge of amending via legislative, administrative, regulatory, and especially judicial means. They should be flogged and exiled.
          I took it to mean that he's not opposed to amending the constitution but rather the notion that it is a "living document" capable of being twisted and distorted into saying the opposite of what is written in order to make it agree with whatever might be a fad of the moment.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            I took it to mean that he's not opposed to amending the constitution but rather the notion that it is a "living document" capable of being twisted and distorted into saying the opposite of what is written in order to make it agree with whatever might be a fad of the moment.
            And the process to amend the Constitution is, by design, no small task.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              And the process to amend the Constitution is, by design, no small task.
              As you said "by design." The founders wisely understood how folks react to popular movements/causes and fads and wanted to make it so that if we want to change the constitution that we're absolutely sure and not acting on a whimsy.

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                In fact, you elected another Nixon.
                Avoiding someone who makes William "Boss" Tweed look like a saintly choir boy

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                  It is already far more flexibly interpreted than it should be. If you want to eliminate any of the protections if provides you are, in my view un-American.
                  No one said anything about "getting rid of the protections it affords," Jedidiah, with the sole exception of the 2nd Amendment, which was ill advised and the founders gave us a means to change things if they became problematic, which is entirely American.
                  The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                  I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                    The Constitution is a legal document. It is to be interpreted in light of the founding fathers -- the verbiage of the Constitution and the discussions in making the Constitution. The language of the day must be utilized as well as the English common law of that era. The philosophers, such as Locke, also play a critical role in understanding the Constitution. As long as we rely on the proper context, debate is reasonable. This Constitution is a contract or treaty among the sovereign states of America who only yielded certain powers to the US Government.
                    If you understand this framework, you are at the starting point for contributing to the advancement of America.
                    I don't disagree with any of this - I disagree that the "intention of the founders" is as black and white as it is often portrayed to be.

                    Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                    There are too many groups who seek to simply bypass the law in order to recreate America into servile community. Many people are blindly giving up God-given rights (i.e., the philosophical understanding of our source of rights) while they are ignorant of the sort of changes they are 'demanding.' I liken this to protesters on the streets demanding "take away right and freedom to speak."
                    I cannot speak to god-given rights, for obvious reasons, so I'll leave this alone.

                    Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                    We had protesters who called our president fascist. The group that normally and predominantly known for protests against fascism are the Communists, where such philosophy has led to the death of millions upon millions of people. Ironically the protest was against the socialist party which I understand to be another flavor of communism. The main point is that these protesters were either ignorant of the communist influence or are seeking to destabalize America on false grounds.
                    It is my understanding that socialism is an economic theory, and communism is a political governance theory. I could be wrong. Our country is not communistic, it is a democratic representational republic. Economically, our country is mostly capitalistic, but there are some elements that have been implemented using a socialistic model (e.g., medicare, medicaid, social security, the national highway system, etc.). Again, I am not an economist, so I may have some of that incorrect.

                    Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                    Hopefully you come to understand the threats on our freedom.
                    IMO, the primary threats to our freedom are those who think people who disagree with them are threats to our freedom. See this from those on the left who have an intolerance for views they disagree with, and do not want to even hear them (colleges, etc.). I see it from those on the right who are so vociferously undermining some of our most vital institutions (e.g., the fourth estate, law enforcement, etc.). The right is likewise unwilling to listen/hear - their approach is simply different - they just paint those who disagree as "unamerican" and "destroying our country."

                    Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                    oh right. You had asked for some recommendations on readings about the US Constitution.
                    I had read "The Making of America: The Substance and Meaning of the Constitution" by Cleon Skousen
                    But I had meant to see if there were alternative studies on the Constitution for you to look at. I've never gone into scholarly detail on the Constitution.
                    I did?
                    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      In many ways there is a lot of truth to that. When you listen to many of those opposed to him, especially the Never Trumpers, their biggest problem with him is how he comes across. He's not polished but rather crude, rude and anything but P.C. So they'll oppose him even though he's accomplishing many of the things they've wanted done.
                      I think we're way beyond "crude."
                      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        Avoiding someone who makes William "Boss" Tweed look like a saintly choir boy
                        Jeb Bush and John Kasich make William Boos Tweed look like a saintly choir boy?

                        You guys always seem to forget that, long before Trump was running against Clinton, he ran against 17 other Republicans - and the Republicans chose Trump out of that slate of options. So then saying, "well we had to choose him, he was better than Clinton," is a bit disingenuous. After all, you're the ones who narrowed it to that choice.
                        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                          Jeb Bush and John Kasich make William Boos Tweed look like a saintly choir boy?

                          You guys always seem to forget that, long before Trump was running against Clinton, he ran against 17 other Republicans - and the Republicans chose Trump out of that slate of options. So then saying, "well we had to choose him, he was better than Clinton," is a bit disingenuous. After all, you're the ones who narrowed it to that choice.
                          Don't look at me, I voted for Kodos Carson.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                            Jeb Bush and John Kasich make William Boos Tweed look like a saintly choir boy?
                            Don't be deliberately dense carp

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                              Don't look at me, I voted for Kodos Carson.
                              Can't remember exactly who it was that I voted for in the primaries, but being an ABT it wasn't Trump.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                                Hang on -- The fact that the Constitution itself provides for emendation shows that wanting to "change" it cannot in and of itself be "unamerican." The whole point of being able to alter it is that after some length of time, parts of it cease to fit society. By far my main complaint is with those many who try to weasel around the difficult challenge of amending via legislative, administrative, regulatory, and especially judicial means. They should be flogged and exiled.
                                My buddy 06 spelled my intent clearly. I am not opposed to change made in accord with the Constitution, but I do oppose weaselly attempts to bypass the amendment procedure spelled out within the Constitution. I did not say that wanting to amend the Constitution was un-American. What I said was "If you want to eliminate any of the protections if provides you are, in my view un-American." If this nation comes to the point that an amendment eliminating those protections could actually happen, America will be over - a failed experiment.

                                And Carpe, I did not call you particularly un-American. Mine was a generic statement which may or may not apply to you. That is for you, or any other individual, to determine.
                                Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                                Comment

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