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  • #76
    Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
    And guess where we are headed today.
    Somewhere bad in a handbasket.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
      And guess where we are headed today.
      Exactly what the left wants, the state or the majority gets to define rights and gets to decide who they apply to or not. Hence we exclude the unborn or the Christian baker.
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        I think, technically, "any part" of the Constitution is NOT amendable, in the sense of that "part" being changed textually, but the document itself is. For example, the 18th amendment banned alcohol in the US, but when prohibition ended, the 18th was not "amended" - it was left in place in text, but repealed in power by the 21st amendment.
        Actually - I think that's what I said. ANY part of the constitution is amendable. I did not say the amendment eliminated the part amended. It simply supersedes it. So if the next amendment makes null and void the 2nd amendment, then it will be null and void.
        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          Bingo. Once you declare that man is the ultimate authority then it quickly devolves into "anything goes".
          Nonsense!

          A person who sincerely believes that they are acting in accordance with the will of God is immune to evidence, diplomacy, and compromise – as the many religious wars and genocides and persecutions and witch burning and Inquisitions should make abundantly clear.

          OTOH:

          Human behaviour and moral values evolved to ensure the survival of the family and community and cooperation so that the human species survives. This is the basis of morality, not a hypothetical deity.
          “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Tassman View Post
            A person who sincerely believes that they are acting in accordance with the will of God is immune to evidence, diplomacy, and compromise – as the many religious wars and genocides and persecutions and witch burning and Inquisitions should make abundantly clear.
            Just like you Tass, without a god...
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by seer View Post
              Just like you Tass, without a god...
              The reverse is true.
              “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Tassmoron View Post
                Nonsense!

                A person who sincerely believes that they are acting in accordance with the will of God is immune to evidence, diplomacy, and compromise – as the many religious wars and genocides and persecutions and witch burning and Inquisitions should make abundantly clear.

                OTOH:

                Human behaviour and moral values evolved to ensure the survival of the family and community and cooperation so that the human species survives. This is the basis of morality, not a hypothetical deity.
                Yes, let's ignore the fact that atheist regimes are responsible for the greatest atrocities in human history. Let's also ignore the fact that as far as the atheist worldview is concerned, there's nothing actually wrong with that because "mortality" is nothing more than a social convention, like rules of etiquette that say you shouldn't put your elbows on the table. An atheist who does what society has deemed "immoral" is doing nothing worse than if he were to wear a shirt that society has deened "unfashionable". And if he can get away with it then why shouldn't he?
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                  The reverse is true.
                  Are you kidding Tass or just delusional? I have been debating you for years and I never saw you admit that you were wrong once or even question your assumptions. You are more closed minded than just about any religionist I have come across.
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    Yes, let's ignore the fact that atheist regimes are responsible for the greatest atrocities in human history.
                    Theistic regimes have been just as guilty of historical atrocities, more so in fact because a person who believes they are acting according to the will of Almighty God is capable of any atrocity in his name.

                    Let's also ignore the fact that as far as the atheist worldview is concerned, there's nothing actually wrong with that because "mortality" is nothing more than a social convention, like rules of etiquette that say you shouldn't put your elbows on the table. An atheist who does what society has deemed "immoral" is doing nothing worse than if he were to wear a shirt that society has deened "unfashionable". And if he can get away with it then why shouldn't he?
                    Nonsense, as human beings we are social animals. Our sociality is the result of evolution and natural selection and has equipped us to be sensitive to and aware of the emotional needs of our fellows. Human behaviour and moral values evolved to ensure the survival of the family and community and cooperation so that the human species survives.
                    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      Yes, let's ignore the fact that atheist regimes are responsible for the greatest atrocities in human history. Let's also ignore the fact that as far as the atheist worldview is concerned, there's nothing actually wrong with that because "mortality" is nothing more than a social convention, like rules of etiquette that say you shouldn't put your elbows on the table. An atheist who does what society has deemed "immoral" is doing nothing worse than if he were to wear a shirt that society has deened "unfashionable". And if he can get away with it then why shouldn't he?
                      As with many such claims, this skews the statistics. The atheist regimes that committed these atrocities largely committed them in the 20th century, AFAICT. In that century, the tools of war had been enhanced with technology, and the population growth was beginning to skyrocket. So the opportunity for greater atrocity was real. If you look at the numbers not as "raw numbers," but as a percentage of the population, there is no significant difference between the two groups.

                      People kill - and wage war - and commit atrocities, whatever their beliefs may be. God has been the reason for many of these - but godless wars have also been common.
                      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Tassmoron View Post
                        Nonsense, as human beings we are social animals. Our sociality is the result of evolution and natural selection and has equipped us to be sensitive to and aware of the emotional needs of our fellows. Human behaviour and moral values evolved to ensure the survival of the family and community and cooperation so that the human species survives.
                        This doesn't actually address my argument. If were to distill this down, you're essentially saying, "An atheist ought live morally because an atheist ought to live morally."
                        Last edited by Mountain Man; 05-24-2018, 11:56 AM.
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          This doesn't actually address my argument. If were to distill this down, you're essentially saying, "An atheist ought live morally because an atheist ought to live morally."
                          No, what I'm saying is that morals are derivatives of self-preservation and procreation in every case and are a consequence of natural selection. They are naturally built into us, because those morals were beneficial to the breeding and survival of our species as social animals.
                          “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                            No, what I'm saying is that morals are derivatives of self-preservation and procreation in every case and are a consequence of natural selection. They are naturally built into us, because those morals were beneficial to the breeding and survival of our species as social animals.
                            Going by that criteria that makes abortion immoral, right?


                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              Going by that criteria that makes abortion immoral, right?

                              That
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Tassmoron View Post
                                No, what I'm saying is that morals are derivatives of self-preservation and procreation in every case and are a consequence of natural selection. They are naturally built into us, because those morals were beneficial to the breeding and survival of our species as social animals.
                                So they're not morals, they're instincts, and nothing more than an accident of evolution.

                                Thank you for conceding the point.
                                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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