Pope Says It OK To Be Gay?

[Terraceth]

Here's an interesting article from the Human Rights Campaign showing the Pope's.. um.. incompatible statements on LBQTXIJVMCD....

Summarizing the statements....

• [07/2013] "If they accept the Lord and have goodwill, who am I to judge them?"
• [03/2015] "Sometimes it happens that you feel disappointed, discouraged, abandoned by all: but God does not forget his children, he never abandons them! He is always at our side, especially in trying times."
• [06/2015] "I ask you to pray fervently for this intention," the Pope continued, "so that Christ can take even what might seem to us impure, scandalous or threatening, and turn it ... into a miracle. Families today need miracles!"
• [12/2014] "We have to find a way to help that father or that mother to stand by their [LGBTQ] son or daughter."
• [02/2015] "Let's think of the nuclear arms, of the possibility to annihilate in a few instants a very high number of human beings. Let's think also of genetic manipulation, of the manipulation of life, or of the gender theory, that does not recognize the order of creation."
• [01/2015] "The family is threatened by growing efforts on the part of some to redefine the very institution of marriage, by relativism, by the culture of the ephemeral, by a lack of openness to life."
• [02/2015] "[...] I wish to express my appreciation to the entire Slovak church, encouraging everyone to continue their efforts in defense of the family, the vital cell of society."

I am not sure about the others, but the first one is taken rather out of context. It's one of the most frequently quoted statements whenever it comes to him supposedly favoring homosexuality, either to attack or praise him for it. But that's always done just by presenting the statement without the actual context of it. So let's look at that context:

Ilze Scamparini

I would like permission to ask a delicate question: another image that has been going around the world is that of Monsignor Ricca and the news about his private life. I would like to know, Your Holiness, what you intend to do about this? How are you confronting this issue and how does Your Holiness intend to confront the whole question of the gay lobby?

Pope Francis

About Monsignor Ricca: I did what canon law calls for, that is a preliminary investigation.

As we can see, in actual context, he's not referring to those living an active homosexual "lifestyle" as people like to present the quote as doing.

There's also the reality that he's the first pope in centuries accused of propagating heresies.

Searching online for "<insert the name of any pope from the last century>" and "heresy" indicates otherwise.

[psstein]

Searching online for "<insert the name of any pope from the last century>" and "heresy" indicates otherwise.

Yes, this is true. The difference is that Francis has been accused by bishops in communion with the Church, rather than splinter groups or internet kooks.

[Catholicity]

Yes, this is true. The difference is that Francis has been accused by bishops in communion with the Church, rather than splinter groups or internet kooks.

Not just in Communion with, but even those who clearly are very passionate and dedicated to keeping and upholding the truth. Especially sickening was his actions against Cardinal Burke.

[psstein]

Not just in Communion with, but even those who clearly are very passionate and dedicated to keeping and upholding the truth. Especially sickening was his actions against Cardinal Burke.

I have a very strong inclination that, after Francis' tenure ends, the Church will elect someone far more traditional. More conservative elements in the Church are extremely frustrated with Francis. Without the mainstream media fawning over him, I doubt most Catholics would tolerate Francis.

[NorrinRadd]

I have a very strong inclination that, after Francis' tenure ends, the Church will elect someone far more traditional. More conservative elements in the Church are extremely frustrated with Francis. Without the mainstream media fawning over him, I doubt most Catholics would tolerate Francis.

Ok... What do you do about a Pope you can't "tolerate"? Is there such a thing as Papal impeachment?

[One Bad Pig]

I have a very strong inclination that, after Francis' tenure ends, the Church will elect someone far more traditional. More conservative elements in the Church are extremely frustrated with Francis. Without the mainstream media fawning over him, I doubt most Catholics would tolerate Francis.

He's also appointed a bunch of cardinals, IIRC.

[psstein]

Ok... What do you do about a Pope you can't "tolerate"? Is there such a thing as Papal impeachment?

I'm sure there's some process to remove a Pope, but the solution right now is to continue adhering to tradition regardless of what the Pope says.

[DesertBerean]

[NorrinRadd]

I'm sure there's some process to remove a Pope, but the solution right now is to continue adhering to tradition regardless of what the Pope says.

I got curious, looked around a bit, and found this.

As I am definitely not a Catholic, almost all of it seems silly and irrelevant.

The specific part about "deposing" a heretical Pope is, IMO, double-talk.

[psstein]

I got curious, looked around a bit, and found this.

As I am definitely not a Catholic, almost all of it seems silly and irrelevant.

The specific part about "deposing" a heretical Pope is, IMO, double-talk.

Looking at the Canon Law, the Pope cannot be removed. I'm sure there's some loophole in it (e.g. the Pope promulgates an agreed-upon heresy like Arianism), but so far as I can tell, there's no removal process.

Historically, when Popes have been removed, it's been done by secular forces outside the Church, not the Church's apparatus.

[DesertBerean]

Looking at the Canon Law, the Pope cannot be removed. I'm sure there's some loophole in it (e.g. the Pope promulgates an agreed-upon heresy like Arianism), but so far as I can tell, there's no removal process.

Historically, when Popes have been removed, it's been done by secular forces outside the Church, not the Church's apparatus.

Wow. I remember reading something about some of the popes really misbehaving and Catholic history admitted it. So...nobody even thought about setting up a process? They let themselves have two living popes. Why not set up something for actions they already acknowledge do happen? I don't get it.

[KingsGambit]

Wow. I remember reading something about some of the popes really misbehaving and Catholic history admitted it. So...nobody even thought about setting up a process? They let themselves have two living popes. Why not set up something for actions they already acknowledge do happen? I don't get it.

That's why I really don't think papal succession straight back to the apostles is a viable claim. And the RCC's claim to be the one true church is largely based on it.

(If I ever abandoned Protestantism I'd probably go Orthodox. Its structures seem better designed to account for the realities of fallen man, even within the church.)

[One Bad Pig]

Either Pope Francis' position has evolved, or the remarks in the OP were misconstrued:


link

[rogue06]

Either Pope Francis' position has evolved, or the remarks in the OP were misconstrued:


link

Is it just me or does Francis' statements require far more explaining and interpreting than any other pope's in the last century?

[One Bad Pig]

Is it just me or does Francis' statements require far more explaining and interpreting than any other pope's in the last century?

Not just you.