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Pope Says It OK To Be Gay?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Here's an interesting article from the Human Rights Campaign showing the Pope's.. um.. incompatible statements on LBQTXIJVMCD....

    Summarizing the statements....
    • [07/2013] "If they accept the Lord and have goodwill, who am I to judge them?"
    • [03/2015] "Sometimes it happens that you feel disappointed, discouraged, abandoned by all: but God does not forget his children, he never abandons them! He is always at our side, especially in trying times."
    • [06/2015] "I ask you to pray fervently for this intention," the Pope continued, "so that Christ can take even what might seem to us impure, scandalous or threatening, and turn it ... into a miracle. Families today need miracles!"
    • [12/2014] "We have to find a way to help that father or that mother to stand by their [LGBTQ] son or daughter."
    • [02/2015] "Let's think of the nuclear arms, of the possibility to annihilate in a few instants a very high number of human beings. Let's think also of genetic manipulation, of the manipulation of life, or of the gender theory, that does not recognize the order of creation."
    • [01/2015] "The family is threatened by growing efforts on the part of some to redefine the very institution of marriage, by relativism, by the culture of the ephemeral, by a lack of openness to life."
    • [02/2015] "[...] I wish to express my appreciation to the entire Slovak church, encouraging everyone to continue their efforts in defense of the family, the vital cell of society."
    I am not sure about the others, but the first one is taken rather out of context. It's one of the most frequently quoted statements whenever it comes to him supposedly favoring homosexuality, either to attack or praise him for it. But that's always done just by presenting the statement without the actual context of it. So let's look at that context:

    Ilze Scamparini

    I would like permission to ask a delicate question: another image that has been going around the world is that of Monsignor Ricca and the news about his private life. I would like to know, Your Holiness, what you intend to do about this? How are you confronting this issue and how does Your Holiness intend to confront the whole question of the gay lobby?

    Pope Francis

    About Monsignor Ricca: I did what canon law calls for, that is a preliminary investigation. And from this investigation, there was nothing of what had been alleged. We did not find anything of that. This is the response. But I wish to add something else: I see that many times in the Church, over and above this case, but including this case, people search for “sins from youth”, for example, and then publish them. They are not crimes, right? Crimes are something different: the abuse of minors is a crime. No, sins. But if a person, whether it be a lay person, a priest or a religious sister, commits a sin and then converts, the Lord forgives, and when the Lord forgives, the Lord forgets and this is very important for our lives. When we confess our sins and we truly say, “I have sinned in this”, the Lord forgets, and so we have no right not to forget, because otherwise we would run the risk of the Lord not forgetting our sins. That is a danger. This is important: a theology of sin. Many times I think of Saint Peter. He committed one of the worst sins, that is he denied Christ, and even with this sin they made him Pope. We have to think a great deal about that. But, returning to your question more concretely. In this case, I conducted the preliminary investigation and we didn’t find anything. This is the first question. Then, you spoke about the gay lobby. So much is written about the gay lobby. I still haven’t found anyone with an identity card in the Vatican with “gay” on it. They say there are some there. I believe that when you are dealing with such a person, you must distinguish between the fact of a person being gay and the fact of someone forming a lobby, because not all lobbies are good. This one is not good. If someone is gay and is searching for the Lord and has good will, then who am I to judge him? The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this in a beautiful way, saying ... wait a moment, how does it say it ... it says: “no one should marginalize these people for this, they must be integrated into society”. The problem is not having this tendency, no, we must be brothers and sisters to one another, and there is this one and there is that one. The problem is in making a lobby of this tendency: a lobby of misers, a lobby of politicians, a lobby of masons, so many lobbies. For me, this is the greater problem. Thank you so much for asking this question. Many thanks.
    As we can see, in actual context, he's not referring to those living an active homosexual "lifestyle" as people like to present the quote as doing.

    Originally posted by psstein View Post
    There's also the reality that he's the first pope in centuries accused of propagating heresies.
    Searching online for "<insert the name of any pope from the last century>" and "heresy" indicates otherwise.
    Last edited by Terraceth; 05-23-2018, 06:39 PM.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
      Searching online for "<insert the name of any pope from the last century>" and "heresy" indicates otherwise.
      Yes, this is true. The difference is that Francis has been accused by bishops in communion with the Church, rather than splinter groups or internet kooks.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by psstein View Post
        Yes, this is true. The difference is that Francis has been accused by bishops in communion with the Church, rather than splinter groups or internet kooks.
        Not just in Communion with, but even those who clearly are very passionate and dedicated to keeping and upholding the truth. Especially sickening was his actions against Cardinal Burke.
        A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
        George Bernard Shaw

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Catholicity View Post
          Not just in Communion with, but even those who clearly are very passionate and dedicated to keeping and upholding the truth. Especially sickening was his actions against Cardinal Burke.
          I have a very strong inclination that, after Francis' tenure ends, the Church will elect someone far more traditional. More conservative elements in the Church are extremely frustrated with Francis. Without the mainstream media fawning over him, I doubt most Catholics would tolerate Francis.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by psstein View Post
            I have a very strong inclination that, after Francis' tenure ends, the Church will elect someone far more traditional. More conservative elements in the Church are extremely frustrated with Francis. Without the mainstream media fawning over him, I doubt most Catholics would tolerate Francis.
            Ok... What do you do about a Pope you can't "tolerate"? Is there such a thing as Papal impeachment?
            Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

            Beige Federalist.

            Nationalist Christian.

            "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

            Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

            Proud member of the this space left blank community.

            Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

            Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

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            Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

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            • #51
              Originally posted by psstein View Post
              I have a very strong inclination that, after Francis' tenure ends, the Church will elect someone far more traditional. More conservative elements in the Church are extremely frustrated with Francis. Without the mainstream media fawning over him, I doubt most Catholics would tolerate Francis.
              He's also appointed a bunch of cardinals, IIRC.
              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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              • #52
                Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                Ok... What do you do about a Pope you can't "tolerate"? Is there such a thing as Papal impeachment?
                I'm sure there's some process to remove a Pope, but the solution right now is to continue adhering to tradition regardless of what the Pope says.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post


                  Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by psstein View Post
                    I'm sure there's some process to remove a Pope, but the solution right now is to continue adhering to tradition regardless of what the Pope says.
                    I got curious, looked around a bit, and found this.

                    As I am definitely not a Catholic, almost all of it seems silly and irrelevant.

                    The specific part about "deposing" a heretical Pope is, IMO, double-talk.
                    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                    Beige Federalist.

                    Nationalist Christian.

                    "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                    Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                    Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                    Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                    Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                    Justice for Matthew Perna!

                    Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                      I got curious, looked around a bit, and found this.

                      As I am definitely not a Catholic, almost all of it seems silly and irrelevant.

                      The specific part about "deposing" a heretical Pope is, IMO, double-talk.
                      Looking at the Canon Law, the Pope cannot be removed. I'm sure there's some loophole in it (e.g. the Pope promulgates an agreed-upon heresy like Arianism), but so far as I can tell, there's no removal process.

                      Historically, when Popes have been removed, it's been done by secular forces outside the Church, not the Church's apparatus.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by psstein View Post
                        Looking at the Canon Law, the Pope cannot be removed. I'm sure there's some loophole in it (e.g. the Pope promulgates an agreed-upon heresy like Arianism), but so far as I can tell, there's no removal process.

                        Historically, when Popes have been removed, it's been done by secular forces outside the Church, not the Church's apparatus.

                        Wow. I remember reading something about some of the popes really misbehaving and Catholic history admitted it. So...nobody even thought about setting up a process? They let themselves have two living popes. Why not set up something for actions they already acknowledge do happen? I don't get it.
                        Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by DesertBerean View Post
                          Wow. I remember reading something about some of the popes really misbehaving and Catholic history admitted it. So...nobody even thought about setting up a process? They let themselves have two living popes. Why not set up something for actions they already acknowledge do happen? I don't get it.
                          That's why I really don't think papal succession straight back to the apostles is a viable claim. And the RCC's claim to be the one true church is largely based on it.

                          (If I ever abandoned Protestantism I'd probably go Orthodox. Its structures seem better designed to account for the realities of fallen man, even within the church.)
                          Last edited by KingsGambit; 05-26-2018, 11:04 PM.
                          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Either Pope Francis' position has evolved, or the remarks in the OP were misconstrued:
                            Source: Nate Jackson

                            In a book-length interview called The Strength of Vocation, the pope told Fernando Prado, a Spanish priest, “The question of homosexuality is a very serious one” and “something that worries me.” He explained, “In our societies, it even seems homosexuality is fashionable,” but, he warned, “this mentality, in some way, also influences the life of the church.” He continued, “In consecrated life and priestly life, there is no room for this kind of affection. … For this reason, the Church urges that persons with this rooted tendency not be accepted into [priestly] ministry or consecrated life.” In fact, when it comes to those already in the priesthood, Francis said, “It is better that they leave the priesthood or the consecrated life rather than live a double life.”

                            © Copyright Original Source



                            link
                            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                            sigpic
                            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                              Either Pope Francis' position has evolved, or the remarks in the OP were misconstrued:
                              Source: Nate Jackson

                              In a book-length interview called The Strength of Vocation, the pope told Fernando Prado, a Spanish priest, “The question of homosexuality is a very serious one” and “something that worries me.” He explained, “In our societies, it even seems homosexuality is fashionable,” but, he warned, “this mentality, in some way, also influences the life of the church.” He continued, “In consecrated life and priestly life, there is no room for this kind of affection. … For this reason, the Church urges that persons with this rooted tendency not be accepted into [priestly] ministry or consecrated life.” In fact, when it comes to those already in the priesthood, Francis said, “It is better that they leave the priesthood or the consecrated life rather than live a double life.”

                              © Copyright Original Source



                              link
                              Is it just me or does Francis' statements require far more explaining and interpreting than any other pope's in the last century?

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                Is it just me or does Francis' statements require far more explaining and interpreting than any other pope's in the last century?
                                Not just you.
                                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                                Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                                sigpic
                                I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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