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NFL’s Proposed National Anthem Rules

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  • #76
    Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    Before anything else...I am stunned that you cut out your horrible sentence...
    I left out a word. I make misteakes to.

    It sounds like we have the same impression of the show. I too like their family dinners. The grace I can take or leave (mostly leave). I find myself wondering if I made a mistake encouraging my boys to be independent, and not blindly devoted to "family." As they grow up - we grow apart.

    It hurts...
    That's why grandkids are so much fun - you get an opportunity to correct some of the mistakes you made as parents.

    My biggest regret is that I was too immature to realize I didn't have to win every battle with my kids, particularly the eldest.

    I think I've mentioned, I have two daughters, and they are as polar opposite as two kids can be on just about any scale imaginable.

    The "successful" one is so much like me, and the "struggling" one is so much like my worse qualities.

    And, yeah, it hurts.


    I didn't blow off the rest of your post - I asked, and you answered, and I didn't intend that to start a new debate.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      I left out a word. I make misteakes to.
      And you completely robbed me of the opportunity to humiliate you...

      Except for "misteakes" and "to" - whihc was clearly intentional... sew nowere neer as much fun...

      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      That's why grandkids are so much fun - you get an opportunity to correct some of the mistakes you made as parents.
      I was a perfect parent :smaug: (pun intended)

      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      My biggest regret is that I was too immature to realize I didn't have to win every battle with my kids, particularly the eldest.
      Well - that's one I didn't make. 1 down, 1,204,203,201,405,102 to go...

      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      I think I've mentioned, I have two daughters, and they are as polar opposite as two kids can be on just about any scale imaginable.

      The "successful" one is so much like me, and the "struggling" one is so much like my worse qualities.

      And, yeah, it hurts.


      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      I didn't blow off the rest of your post - I asked, and you answered, and I didn't intend that to start a new debate.
      Yeah - we're good. You're a schmuck. I'm a putz. We're kind of suited to each other...
      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

      Comment


      • #78
        Who needs the NFL? The NBA and NHL playoffs have both been awesome this year.
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
          Yes
          I'm going to have to disagree that it was a particularly good way to go about protesting the police. For better or for worse, a lot of people think that disrespecting the flag is such a no-no that they will simply not listen to anything you have to say if that's your form of protest. You don't get people onto your side if you do that. Additionally, I know a number of people who didn't necessarily have a problem with flag disrespect and were just annoyed that politics were being forced into their ball games.

          If anything, I feel this method of protest actively distracted from any issues with the police force, as it turned the debate from "does the police force need improvement?" to "is this the proper way to go about protesting?" What was actually being protested got lost in all the attention paid to the method of protest. Sort of like one of those commercials that's really funny but you forget what the actual product being advertised was.

          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          I very RARELY find myself thinking "oh, come on, it's not like that!" I think they do a great job of handling a lot of issues, and showing the difficulties of the job, even the racially sensitive issues.
          Out of curiosity, as long as we're on the subject of "how realistic is this depiction of the police force", what's your opinion on The Wire?

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
            I'm going to have to disagree that it was a particularly good way to go about protesting the police. For better or for worse, a lot of people think that disrespecting the flag is such a no-no that they will simply not listen to anything you have to say if that's your form of protest. You don't get people onto your side if you do that. Additionally, I know a number of people who didn't necessarily have a problem with flag disrespect and were just annoyed that politics were being forced into their ball games.

            If anything, I feel this method of protest actively distracted from any issues with the police force, as it turned the debate from "does the police force need improvement?" to "is this the proper way to go about protesting?" What was actually being protested got lost in all the attention paid to the method of protest. Sort of like one of those commercials that's really funny but you forget what the actual product being advertised was.
            Great summary - and I can't imagine they couldn't have seen that as a problem.

            Out of curiosity, as long as we're on the subject of "how realistic is this depiction of the police force", what's your opinion on The Wire?
            Sorry, I had to Google that to see what it was.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              Seriously, though, Roy, it's not about the anthem alone - it's (to me) about people who are being paid YUUUUUUGE sums of money to play games as members of a TEAM who decide to focus the attention on THEMSELVES and their own causes while on their employers' dime. The fact that they choose to do this during the anthem is just a major aggravating factor.

              If they wanted to call a press conference, or be a guest speaker at a rally or event, I really don't give a flip. That, of course, would depend upon the contract they signed with their EMPLOYER.
              Yup. It's between them and their employer, and it doesn't affect their game performance.
              Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

              MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
              MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

              seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
                I'm going to have to disagree that it was a particularly good way to go about protesting the police. For better or for worse, a lot of people think that disrespecting the flag is such a no-no that they will simply not listen to anything you have to say if that's your form of protest. You don't get people onto your side if you do that. Additionally, I know a number of people who didn't necessarily have a problem with flag disrespect and were just annoyed that politics were being forced into their ball games.

                If anything, I feel this method of protest actively distracted from any issues with the police force, as it turned the debate from "does the police force need improvement?" to "is this the proper way to go about protesting?" What was actually being protested got lost in all the attention paid to the method of protest. Sort of like one of those commercials that's really funny but you forget what the actual product being advertised was.
                You know, I was going to disagree with you, until I applied a little logic to the question. So it strikes me that, related to this issue, there are four kinds of people:
                1. Sensitive to flag/anthem issues and sensitive to criticism of police
                2. Sensitive to flag/anthem issues and insensitive to criticism of police
                3. Insensitive to flag/anthem issues and sensitive to criticism of police
                4. Insensitive to flag/anthem issues and insensitive to criticism of police

                Groups 1 and 3 are a loss; they aren't going to listen to any criticism of the police because that is, in their minds, disrespecting people who put themselves on the line each day. For the record, it is possible to respect these people AND be critical of them. The alternative is folly, because it suggests that their sacrifice makes them immune to examination, which is a wide open door for corruption. That leaves Groups 2 and 4. Group 2 is going to do exactly what your criticism suggests. Group 4 will be made aware of the issue without raising the hair on the back of their necks.

                So the question is, which group is larger and what proportion of them watch football. If Group 2 is larger and/or more of them watch football, this is not the best way to call attention to the issue. If Group 4 is larger and/or more of them watch football, this is a good way to call attention to the issue.

                The original question also asked if this was the "best" way, and I hurriedly said yes without really giving it a lot of thought. I usually avoid superlatives because they are almost impossible to demonstrate/prove. In this case, it requires demonstrating that all other possible ways of raising awareness are less effective.

                So I have to change my answer to "I don't know" on the basis of the analysis, supplemented by "probably not" on the basis of the superlative. Your analysis is a good one, and I answered too hurriedly.

                Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
                Out of curiosity, as long as we're on the subject of "how realistic is this depiction of the police force", what's your opinion on The Wire?
                I have to admit I have never watched it. Do you recommended it?
                Last edited by carpedm9587; 05-25-2018, 06:55 AM.
                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  That's what you THINK you're doing. You're totally missing the point. They can say whatever they want wherever they want ON THEIR OWN DIME. This is like going to a concert to hear somebody sing or do a comedy routine, and, instead, the launch into politics.
                  No, it's like going to a concert to hear somebody sing or do a comedy routing, and they sing or do a comedy routine, but do something you dislike while they are waiting for the curtain to go up.
                  Not my impression - my impression is that you're defending "young men" (rich athletes) focusing the attention on THEMSELVES to advance their OWN agenda, when they are being paid YUUUUUUGE money (did I say YUUUUUUUUGE?) to be a TEAM.
                  If I didn't know better, I'd be getting the message that these players don't take the field.

                  These players do what they are paid to do. They do play the sport. They do "be a TEAM".
                  Last edited by Roy; 05-25-2018, 07:02 AM.
                  Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                  MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                  MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                  seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Roy View Post
                    No, it's like going to a concert to hear somebody sing or do a comedy routing, and they sing or do a comedy routine, but do something you dislike while they are waiting for the curtain to go up.
                    Meh... the National Anthem IS "the curtain going up".
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      From USA Today...

                      The idea that the NFL is only implementing its new national anthem policy because of falling ratings and public pressure is exactly how businesses work. No business exists to employ people; they exist to make as much money as possible. Hemorrhaging fans, or customers, is the quickest path to failure, so it’s smart for the NFL to do all it can to stop the swirling public relations disaster its players created.

                      Fining teams whose players kneel during the anthem isn’t “punishing dissent,” it’s the people who sign the front of the players’ sizable checks exerting the authority inherent in any employer/employee relationship.

                      Players have six other days of the week, and 21 other hours on the day of games, not to mention the months they have off, to protest whatever they want in any matter they choose. They’re celebrities in their towns, they don’t lack access to media willing to report on anything they do. But when they punch the clock, they should leave their personal agendas in the locker room and do their jobs.

                      President Trump didn’t create the disgust fans felt; he recognized it.


                      Does the Cite feature work?

                      Source: USAToday

                      blah blah blah

                      © Copyright Original Source




                      A) The USA Today article is, of course, only an opinion piece
                      2) It's right!
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        Meh... the National Anthem IS "the curtain going up".
                        Ok, it's like going to a concert to hear somebody sing or do a comedy routing, and they sing or do a comedy routine, but do something you dislike while the curtain is going up.
                        Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                        MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                        MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                        seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Roy View Post
                          Ok, it's like going to a concert to hear somebody sing or do a comedy routing, and they sing or do a comedy routine, but do something you dislike while the curtain is going up.
                          Hmmmm.... only if "the curtain going up" was a time honored tradition that required pretty much everybody in the house to stand quietly and respect the going up of the curtain.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                            I recommend you do check. Sparko's list of events is accurate, to my knowledge. But the general media coverage was relatively muted - until Trump chimed in and began pounding the drum in tweets, at his rallies, and any other speaking opportunity where he could wedge it in. The number of players involved and the media coverage skyrocketed at that point.

                            And I agree that some of the players have done/said inappropriate things (e.g., the pig socks). I don't support or condone those. I have no problem with taking a single knee during the anthem.
                            I was off. Kaepernick kneeled, along with a few others, then Trump commented that they should be fired, then others started kneeling basically in protest to Trump chiming in. So Trump did make it worse, but then it also means they were not really protesting police, but Trump. They were just being defiant because of Trump's comments. So the whole thing blew out of proportion. But he didn't start the protest against the players kneeling. That was already going on right from the time Kaepernick kneeled. People were burning his jersey in protest and refusing to go to his games.
                            Last edited by Sparko; 05-25-2018, 07:56 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              I was off. Kaepernick kneeled, along with a few others, then Trump commented that they should be fired, then others started kneeling basically in protest to Trump chiming in. So Trump did make it worse, but then it also means they were not really protesting police, but Trump. They were just being defiant because of Trump's comments. So the whole thing blew out of proportion.
                              OK, that's more like how I understood it.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                OK, that's more like how I understood it.
                                Here is an entire reverse timeline of all of the events, starting with Kaepernick in august 2016

                                https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/tim...them/614679920

                                shorter video version, leaves out a lot of details:

                                http://www.chicagotribune.com/94831975-132.html
                                Last edited by Sparko; 05-25-2018, 08:01 AM.

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