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  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    You should start your own country. You could call it Carpland!
    I could...or I could just fight for this one to be more inclusive...
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      You should start your own country. You could call it Carpland!
      Haven't people already tried that? Declare their property its own country and then claim they don't owe US taxes or some nonsense like that?
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        Haven't people already tried that? Declare their property its own country and then claim they don't owe US taxes or some nonsense like that?
        One thing I love about posting here: I learn stuff...

        I had no idea that micronations existed.
        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          Haven't people already tried that? Declare their property its own country and then claim they don't owe US taxes or some nonsense like that?
          The sovereign citizen movement?
          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            Haven't people already tried that? Declare their property its own country and then claim they don't owe US taxes or some nonsense like that?
            Yes, it often does not end well.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              Haven't people already tried that? Declare their property its own country and then claim they don't owe US taxes or some nonsense like that?
              There are numerous unclaimed atolls and small islands.

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                While, as CP noted, the pledge says, "and to the Republic..." it IS an "and." It starts "I pledge allegiance the flag." I do not pledge allegiance to a colored strip of cloth. That IS flag worship.
                Sort of. One similarly shows "worship" when one identifies on the voter rolls as belonging to this or that party.
                If the pledge said, "I pledge allegiance, to the Republic of the United States of America, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all," that is a pledge ALL could say with gratitude and honor. When you insert "to the flag," you make it "flag worship." When you insert "under god," you make it divisive.
                And now we see your true angst regarding the pledge of allegiance. While I have no issues with the pledge, I understand why you do.
                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                sigpic
                I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                Comment


                • I feel completely uncomfortable with the pledge myself, though CP gave me an analogy awhile back that makes a reasonable argument.

                  I thought that you should only pledge allegiance to God, though CP pointed out that you make an allegiance pledge in a wedding vow and that's not idolatrous. So I know I have some more work to do here but on a personal level, my conscience still tells me that something is wrong. So biblically, I believe it would be wrong for me to participate in the pledge of allegiance.

                  When I substitute taught, when the pledge of allegiance was said, I always just stood there quietly, not making a scene or anything. Nobody ever complained.
                  "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    There are numerous unclaimed atolls and small islands.
                    Nope.

                    Turns out governments like to claim territory. About the closest you can find to "unclaimed" is land claimed by two different governments with neither recognizing the other's claim.
                    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                      Sort of. One similarly shows "worship" when one identifies on the voter rolls as belonging to this or that party.
                      First of all, joining a club doesn't necessarily mean "worshiping" the club. However, it is specifically because party affiliation HAS become pretty much a matter of unthoughtful worship that I will not affiliate with a party. I am not interested in joining a partisan club that looks to no other view than its own. I prefer to examine all views, determine which ones seem to have merit, and vote accordingly.

                      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                      And now we see your true angst regarding the pledge of allegiance. While I have no issues with the pledge, I understand why you do.
                      I think "angst" is a bit too strong a word. In circumstances where the pledge is being made, I simply stay silent. Or I join in with the modified version I put forward, skipping over those parts I find unacceptable. Allegiance to country I have no problem with. Allegiance to a strip of cloth and to a god I believe does not exist I do.

                      For the same reasons, I carry very little cash, and use it only when I absolutely have to. I have no desire to pass around a business card for a god I do not believe exists.
                      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                        To be fair, the American attack on east asia, aka the Vietnam War, had nothing to do with keeping Americans safe. It's important to remember when it comes to US patriotism that America's "defense" force operates as an attack force, slaughtering people the world over and undermining democracies around the world and propping up dictators.
                        Very true! But this does not alter the fact that the man making so much noise about lack of patriotism did everything in his power to avoid military service...to the extent of obtaining five deferments.
                        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                          Very true! But this does not alter the fact that the man making so much noise about lack of patriotism did everything in his power to avoid military service...to the extent of obtaining five deferments.
                          And he criticized a political opponent (John McCain) for actually having been captured in war.
                          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                            And he criticized a political opponent (John McCain) for actually having been captured in war.
                            I really did not think that Trump would survive that.

                            While I don't like McCain's own behavior in recent years the one thing nobody should ever find fault with is his behavior in Vietnam after being shot down. Being the son of the commander of all U.S. forces in Vietnam he in effect had a get out of jail free card and would have been released but McCain refused to leave before those also held were released. So instead of recuperating in a hospital in Honolulu or the like he was brutally tortured for causing his captors to miss a chance at a propaganda coup.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              I really did not think that Trump would survive that.

                              While I don't like McCain's own behavior in recent years the one thing nobody should ever find fault with is his behavior in Vietnam after being shot down. Being the son of the commander of all U.S. forces in Vietnam he in effect had a get out of jail free card and would have been released but McCain refused to leave before those also held were released. So instead of recuperating in a hospital in Honolulu or the like he was brutally tortured for causing his captors to miss a chance at a propaganda coup.
                              Trump survived it because like most brouhahas involving Trump, he didn't actually do or say what his political enemies claim.

                              Basically, McCain was insulting Trump and his supporters, many of whom were veterans themselves, by calling them crazy, and when Trump fired back, a reporter repeatedly goaded him with, "But he's a war hero!" Trump responded by saying, in effect, that getting captured doesn't make you a hero.

                              Typical for Trump he could have worded it better, but in context, it's apparent what he was getting at.

                              http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/...le-who-werent/
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                                I think "angst" is a bit too strong a word. In circumstances where the pledge is being made, I simply stay silent. Or I join in with the modified version I put forward, skipping over those parts I find unacceptable. Allegiance to country I have no problem with. Allegiance to a strip of cloth and to a god I believe does not exist I do.

                                For the same reasons, I carry very little cash, and use it only when I absolutely have to. I have no desire to pass around a business card for a god I do not believe exists.
                                Your second statement puts the lie to the first. You DO have some deep-seated issues with God, don't you?
                                Last edited by One Bad Pig; 05-28-2018, 12:39 PM.
                                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                                Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                                sigpic
                                I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                                Comment

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