Ireland legalizes the killing of the unborn

[stfoskey15]

It's not manufactured, and the fact that you think someone has to feign outrage at such evil says quite a lot about you.

And the left doesn't want it protected only in "certain circumstances", they want it to be legal and available in EVERY circumstance.

Not necessarily. I lean to the left (in the U.S. at least), and I think that after about 20 weeks or so an abortion should only be legal when medically necessary. I feel strongly that first trimester abortion should be legal if the life or health of the mother is at risk, the fetus is unlikely to survive, or if the pregnancy is a result of rape, but in other circumstances I'm not that opposed to legal restrictions.

I do think reducing abortions by making it easier for parents to care for children is important, and providing paid maternity (and hopefully also paternity leave) would be a worthy goal. Making sure young children have access to affordable day care/preschool is important as well. So is encouraging the use of birth control.

But I feel like if you view abortion as murder, you must also view miscarriages as natural deaths, and consider the infant mortality rate to be a few hundred per thousand instead of 7 per 1000 in the U.S. Conservatives would do well to do significant research into preventing miscarriages, if they truly care about preventing the death of fetuses.

[firstfloor]

The evil parasite attacked the woman and crawled into her uterus when she wasn't looking, right?

Parasites are not “evil”.

Preventing unwanted pregnancy is the responsibility of both parties. If anything, the greater responsibility is on the male because his role is invasive and more controllable. But if the pregnancy is unwanted by either party it is only the female that can take action to terminate. It is a man’s duty to be supportive of whatever decision is finally made.

Churches must play their part by promoting health, happiness and sex education and distributing contraception among their young flock. It is a sin to put these things off until ‘holy matrimony’.

[Sparko]

I guess we agree with OBP that there is no simple answer to this question. If I had to make a decision between mother and baby I would question that decision forever. If I made no decision, I would question the decision of not making a decision. My best guess is I would choose the mother over the child. However once the child was born I would probably choose the baby over the mother at any time. And I am against abortion, so it actually does not make much sence but at least I am honest.

I agree. I think if it is one OR the other, the parents should make the decision. If both will die without an abortion then the abortion is the only way to save one of them. But if neither the baby's nor the mother's life is in danger then I am against abortion.

[Cow Poke]

Preventing unwanted pregnancy is the responsibility of both parties.

Amen!

If anything, the greater responsibility is on the male because his role is invasive and more controllable.

You obviously don't remember being a teenager.

But if the pregnancy is unwanted by either party it is only the female that can take action to terminate. It is a man’s duty to be supportive of whatever decision is finally made.

A man's DUTY?!?!?!

Churches must play their part by promoting health, happiness and sex education and distributing contraception among their young flock.

And, once again, I praise God that you're not actually in charge of anything.

It is a sin to put these things off until ‘holy matrimony’.

I have to imagine you sitting there thinking "what REALLY REALLY asinine jackass thing can I say today to get a rise out of these nutty conservatives.

Bless your heart.

[Sparko]

Parasites are not “evil”.

Preventing unwanted pregnancy is the responsibility of both parties. If anything, the greater responsibility is on the male because his role is invasive and more controllable. But if the pregnancy is unwanted by either party it is only the female that can take action to terminate. It is a man’s duty to be supportive of whatever decision is finally made.

if that is the case, then the man should not be responsible for child support if the woman decides to keep it, right?

Churches must play their part by promoting health, happiness and sex education and distributing contraception among their young flock. It is a sin to put these things off until ‘holy matrimony’.

That's stupid. Sex education is the parent's job. They can decide to give their kids contraceptions or not.

[Cow Poke]

I agree. I think if it is one OR the other, the parents should make the decision. If both will die without an abortion then the abortion is the only way to save one of them. But if neither the baby's nor the mother's life is in danger then I am against abortion.

This gets even more complicated by the definition of "danger", because the left will add "mental health", and find a doctor who will certify that it would be mentally damaging to the mother to carry the baby to birth.

[KingsGambit]

This gets even more complicated by the definition of "danger", because the left will add "mental health", and find a doctor who will certify that it would be mentally damaging to the mother to carry the baby to birth.

The bill that was passed in Ireland after that woman died from being denied a lifesaving abortion made a provision for suicide. I think thats dumb. If someone is actively suicidal, a psychiatric ward can keep them safe.

[mossrose]

Last fall, the daughter of our next door neighbour was diagnosed with something like preeclampsia, only it is a worse condition that will affect her the rest of her life (I don't remember the name of it).

She was pregnant with their first child. They monitored her for a couple of months, and she got increasingly worse. At about 24 weeks of pregnancy, she and her husband made the extremely difficult decision to induce labour, because otherwise the mother's life would be in extreme danger.

They had waited as long as they could, hoping that they could hold off until the baby would be viable. But it wasn't to be. Just after 24 weeks, the doctors induced labour and a tiny, perfectly formed little boy, so small he fit in the palm of his grandpa's hand was born. He lived for about 20 minutes.

I KNOW that this was a heartbreaking situation. Our neighbour's are believers, and would never, ever condone abortion. But the choice here was clear.....to save one of the two. We reassured them that they made the right decision. And we grieved with them.

You will not tell me that that precious baby was a "parasite". You will NOT tell me that that precious baby was not a person. Anyone who thinks otherwise is evil and is buying into an evil lie.

I have never known another situation like this. I thank God that situations like this are rare, rarer than liberal thought would have us believe.

Heaven is full of murdered babies. And their blood is on the hands of our culture. And their "mothers".

[Sparko]

This gets even more complicated by the definition of "danger", because the left will add "mental health", and find a doctor who will certify that it would be mentally damaging to the mother to carry the baby to birth.

Or "quality of life" for the baby. That is why I draw the line at the person's life being at risk. There is still plenty of gray there but not as much as the liberals would like. If the mom's mental health is at risk, then just put her in a nuthouse.

[Cow Poke]

Or "quality of life" for the baby. That is why I draw the line at the person's life being at risk. There is still plenty of gray there but not as much as the liberals would like. If the mom's mental health is at risk, then just put her in a nuthouse.

When the liberals want to be anti-cop, they can always come up with "well, why couldn't the cop shoot the gun out of the hand of the bad guy", or, "why isn't there any other way besides killing the bad guy"..... and those decisions are often made in milliseconds.

In the case of a pregnancy, it's every excuse imaginable to terminate the life.

[rogue06]

Ah, so you think they magically turn into Babies as they pass through the birth canal! You're even dumber than I thought!

Which makes me wonder what he thinks a baby is that's half way out of the birth canal, held in place and killed (aborted), which is what happens during a partial birth abortion. Is the part sticking out of the mother a baby with the rest still a non-living clump of cells? Is it a half-baby?

[Cow Poke]

Which makes me wonder what he thinks a baby is that's half way out of the birth canal, held in place and killed (aborted), which is what happens during a partial birth abortion. Is the part sticking out of the mother a baby with the rest still a non-living clump of cells? Is it a half-baby?

I'm still laughing at him accusing me of twisting his words -- when all I did was quote him. It's like so many politicians who get caught accidentally telling the truth...

[Mountain Man]

What is your opinion regarding those extreme and extremely rare cases in which it could be a last resort procedure to save a mother's life? Are you against abortion in those cases?

No, assuming the woman's life is genuinely in danger, and assuming there is zero chance of saving the baby either way.

[rogue06]

Not necessarily. I lean to the left (in the U.S. at least), and I think that after about 20 weeks or so an abortion should only be legal when medically necessary. I feel strongly that first trimester abortion should be legal if the life or health of the mother is at risk, the fetus is unlikely to survive, or if the pregnancy is a result of rape, but in other circumstances I'm not that opposed to legal restrictions.

While I have the deepest sympathies for the mother in circumstances like this and can understand her desire to want to rid herself of any reminder of the ordeal she was forced to endure, the baby is innocent of any wrongdoing and shouldn't be made to pay the price -- especially with his or her life.

[Mountain Man]

But to answer your question... If it is a question of the baby OR the mother, then I think the decision should be left to the parents to decide together. If it means that both will die if the baby is not aborted (ectopic pregnancy for example) then I have no problem with aborting the baby. It has no chance to live no matter what. No reason for the mother to die too.

When my wife and I had our first child, my wife's instruction to me before entering the delivery room was that if I was forced to choose between her life, or the baby's, to save to baby. When our second and third child were born, she said to save her life so that she could be there for her children.

I thank God I never had to make that heartbreaking decision.