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Population statistics and the age of the Earth

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  • Population statistics and the age of the Earth

    Recently came across an interesting 'summary' article regarding population statistics and the age of the Earth.

    The two main competing ideologies -- <10,000 years (Biblical Creationism) vs. billions of year (Materialism-Evolutionism) -- each proposes their own models and equations. Here's the thing ...


    The article sums the main problem of the MEM with one question: "Where, pray tell, are all of the imaginary people that should be in existence if evolution is the true history of humanity?"

    The Materialistic-Evolutionistic Model (MEM) demands far more ad hoc assumptions, corrections and 'miracles' than does the Creationist Model (CM). And that is exactly what Materialists provide in their population models - parameter values and correction factors galore to make present population numbers 'fit'. E.g., do they need millions of people to vanish so as to reduce the population? Simple - just insert more famine, war, epidemics and natural catastrophes into the model and - voila! - the population number is adjusted to whatever value they need. Hey, who's gonna know or verify what happened "375,000 years ago", right?

    Just more of the typical non-refutable, non-falsifiable nature of "scientific" Evolutionism.

    By comparison the CM is quite simple and uses numbers that are fairly well established through several centuries of records of actual population statistics. What do Materialists-Evolutionists say to this? Why, ignore it - of course! - since it doesn't support their ideological-religious position.


    http://apologeticspress.org/APConten...m_medium=email

    Jorge

  • #2
    The elephant sounds off in Plato's Cave.

    WHOOOOMPH! Whoomph! . . . whoomph . . . whoomph . . . phffffffffffft!
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Jorge View Post
      Recently came across an interesting 'summary' article regarding population statistics and the age of the Earth.

      Ah, there's the Clucky we all know. C&Ping some ridiculous YEC stupidity without a single neuron firing. This time we get a YEC pulling numbers straight out his butt and ignoring the huge amount of historical data on actual population sizes for the last 10,000 years. Things like the fact the population growth rate was effectively zero until around 4000 BC and only really took off with the introduction of science and medicine in the late middle ages.



      Hey Clucky, if all the humans on the planet and all the animals are descended from the survivors on Noah's Ark 4500 years ago, why do we not see a severe population bottleneck indicated in the genomes of every species alive today? Why do we see no such genetic bottleneck in any species showing a reduction to 1 breeding pair only 4500 years ago?

      OK folks, watch go BWAAAK! BWAAAK! and run the other way.

      Comment


      • #4
        Wow, the author is phenomenally stupid:

        It has always been intriguing that the evolutionary side of the aisle appears to be quiet about the fact that at the commencement of the human species, both male and female human beings had to evolve simultaneously, in the same geographic area, and while both were alive, in order for the human species to propagate itself—not just one male or one female, and not two males or two females. Further, these male and female human bodies also had to contain the fully functional reproductive components that would be necessary to replicate humanity.
        It's like he doesn't know enough about evolution, so he imagines it's something like creation, where the first members of the genus Homo must have poofed into existence, completely unrelated to all other organisms around them.

        Question for Jorge: if a source obviously knows nothing about biology, why are you promoting them as a provider of valid scientific information about biology?
        "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
          Wow, the author is phenomenally stupid:


          It's like he doesn't know enough about evolution, so he imagines it's something like creation, where the first members of the genus Homo must have poofed into existence, completely unrelated to all other organisms around them.

          Question for Jorge: if a source obviously knows nothing about biology, why are you promoting them as a provider of valid scientific information about biology?
          Unfortunately I have seen this argument put forward by several different internet YECs

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Jorge View Post
            Recently came across an interesting 'summary' article regarding population statistics and the age of the Earth.

            The two main competing ideologies -- <10,000 years (Biblical Creationism) vs. billions of year (Materialism-Evolutionism)
            The evidence for the earth being many times older than a few thousand years has nothing to do with your "Evolutionism" as this was understood even before Darwin set foot on the HMS Beagle much less penned the Theory of Evolution decades later. Even many YECs recognize Darwin and evolutionary theory had no affect on Age of Earth arguments:

            Source: AnswersinGenesis: Where Did the Idea of “Millions of Years” Come From?


            "...by 1845 all the commentaries on Genesis had abandoned the biblical chronology and the global flood; and by the time of Darwin’s Origin of Species (1859), the young-earth view had essentially disappeared within the Church."



            Source

            © Copyright Original Source


            And that's referencing when Christian theologian's essentially universally accepted an ancient creation, not when scientists did.

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Jorge View Post
              Recently came across an interesting 'summary' article regarding population statistics and the age of the Earth.


              Some of the "interesting" parts:

              Besides the problem raised for evolutionists by the origin of sexual reproduction, more problems exist that evolutionists appear to be quite reticent about. For instance, the patriarch and matriarch of the human race, having miraculously emerged in the same time period of history with each other, also had to be able to find each other on planet Earth without first starving, without being eaten by the ferocious animals that evolutionary images of early man portray, and without getting too old to replicate. And still further, just because there is another human being near you, does that mean you will be attracted to him/her? The male and female had to decide that they liked each other and do something about it before dying. And even further, the baby and mother had to survive the ordeal of child birth in those allegedly primitive circumstances. If the emergence of one human being from a non-human being seems ludicrous due to its contradiction of the Law of Biogenesis, surely this realization makes the evolutionary proposition beyond preposterous.
              By comparison the CM is quite simple and uses numbers that are fairly well established through several centuries of records of actual population statistics.
              What the CM actually uses isn't "numbers that are fairly well established through several centuries of records of actual population statistics", but numbers the author picked out of thin air:
              Being very conservative, accounting for periods of famine, disease, war, natural calamity, etc., let us assume that c = 1.2.
              What do Materialists-Evolutionists say to this?
              Nothing - we're laughing too hard at the author's ignorance and stupidity.
              Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

              MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
              MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

              seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

              Comment


              • #8
                One final stake through Jorge's coffin:

                According to the formulae in his source, the world population in 1491BC, 22 generations after the flood, was

                (6/0.2)*(1.2^(22-1.3+1))(1.2^1.3-1) = 420.

                Compare that with the figure of 600000 the bible gives just for the male Israeli population.
                Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Roy View Post
                  One final stake through Jorge's coffin:

                  According to the formulae in his source, the world population in 1491BC, 22 generations after the flood, was

                  (6/0.2)*(1.2^(22-1.3+1))(1.2^1.3-1) = 420.

                  Compare that with the figure of 600000 the bible gives just for the male Israeli population.
                  They never think through these population figures that they dream up.

                  Similar problems arise when they try to explain how the Tower of Babel was constructed -- a building so massive that it went up into the heavens -- so soon after the Flood. Even if every man, woman and child devoted every waking moment to its construction (thereby ignoring details like food production and the like), they wouldn't have the manpower needed to build such a structure.

                  And of course there are other problems, such as this one that I posted on last year: Number of Stone Age Tools Contradict YEC claims

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    They never think through these population figures that they dream up.

                    Similar problems arise when they try to explain how the Tower of Babel was constructed -- a building so massive that it went up into the heavens -- so soon after the Flood. Even if every man, woman and child devoted every waking moment to its construction (thereby ignoring details like food production and the like), they wouldn't have the manpower needed to build such a structure.

                    And of course there are other problems, such as this one that I posted on last year: Number of Stone Age Tools Contradict YEC claims
                    It is a basic problem with any sort of attempt to force the facts to fit the idea pseudo-scientific approach. No human being is smart enough to take into account all possible interactions of the data. That is why science doesn't work that way. The data leads one to the correct conclusion because the records that are left in the Earth have a very restricted number of scenarios that can explain them. The more disparate the data points, the more restricted the scenario must be that can account for them. This is why we can say with near certainty the Earth is not 12,000 years old. Way to many records left behind that only fit together if the age is much > 12,000 years.

                    This population thing is just stupid. At best in can only define a minimum age for the Earth. It has no capacity whatsoever to define a maximum age for the simple reason that when a population exhausts the available resources it stops increasing.

                    Jim
                    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jorge View Post
                      Recently came across an interesting 'summary' article regarding population statistics and the age of the Earth.

                      The two main competing ideologies -- <10,000 years (Biblical Creationism) vs. billions of year (Materialism-Evolutionism) -- each proposes their own models and equations. Here's the thing ...


                      The article sums the main problem of the MEM with one question: "Where, pray tell, are all of the imaginary people that should be in existence if evolution is the true history of humanity?"

                      The Materialistic-Evolutionistic Model (MEM) demands far more ad hoc assumptions, corrections and 'miracles' than does the Creationist Model (CM). And that is exactly what Materialists provide in their population models - parameter values and correction factors galore to make present population numbers 'fit'. E.g., do they need millions of people to vanish so as to reduce the population? Simple - just insert more famine, war, epidemics and natural catastrophes into the model and - voila! - the population number is adjusted to whatever value they need. Hey, who's gonna know or verify what happened "375,000 years ago", right?

                      Just more of the typical non-refutable, non-falsifiable nature of "scientific" Evolutionism.

                      By comparison the CM is quite simple and uses numbers that are fairly well established through several centuries of records of actual population statistics. What do Materialists-Evolutionists say to this? Why, ignore it - of course! - since it doesn't support their ideological-religious position.


                      http://apologeticspress.org/APConten...m_medium=email

                      Jorge
                      Without civilization and medicine, people tended to die before they could reproduce, and infant mortality was pretty huge.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jorge
                        The Materialistic-Evolutionistic Model (MEM) demands far more ad hoc assumptions, corrections and 'miracles' than does the Creationist Model (CM). And that is exactly what Materialists provide in their population models - parameter values and correction factors galore to make present population numbers 'fit'. E.g., do they need millions of people to vanish so as to reduce the population? Simple - just insert more famine, war, epidemics and natural catastrophes into the model and - voila! - the population number is adjusted to whatever value they need. Hey, who's gonna know or verify what happened "375,000 years ago", right?
                        Its almost as if if you ignore the causes of death, like famine and war, then you get a population explosion. How strange.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          Unfortunately I have seen this argument put forward by several different internet YECs
                          Jorge is brash about what he's saying, but he's not advancing arguments not advanced by other people who promote Scientific Creationism. Jorge's level of argument is about as good as it gets, its just cleaned up more in the works of other authors, but its still as bad as this.

                          I don't mind Jorge being the poster boy for Scientific Creationism. He's doing about as a good a job as anyone could of displaying why its a pseudoscience.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            In Jorge's world all of science and virtually everything else is part of a vast conspiracy to hide the truth about YEC. Kinda sad.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              In Jorge's world all of science and virtually everything else is part of a vast conspiracy to hide the truth about YEC. Kinda sad.
                              But again, that's normal with Scientific Creationism. Jorge isn't being an exception to the rule, except perhaps with his behavior. The argumentation doesn't get much better than this actually.

                              Comment

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