Originally posted by carpedm9587
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This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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The Atheist Theist Tension
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostAnd I ain't no fool.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Churches are exempt from taxation (i.e. they receive public subsidy) and yet churchgoers are provided with political information at church services and churches want to be directly involved in electioneering. Consequently, churches are valid political targets and ought to be exposed as the fraudulent enterprises that they are.“I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
“And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
“not all there” - you know who you are
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Originally posted by firstfloor View PostChurches are exempt from taxation (i.e. they receive public subsidy)
and yet churchgoers are provided with political information at church services
and churches want to be directly involved in electioneering.
Consequently, churches are valid political targets and ought to be exposed as the fraudulent enterprises that they are.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostChurches are made up of individuals who are, indeed, taxed.
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostIt is completely allowable for Churches to discuss issues - the problem is when they endorse specific candidates.
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostSpeaking to the issues - these days it's not hard to figure out which candidates support what.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostOK - THAT is a stretch.
The point is that churches, as an entity, are tax exempt under current law.
And even the contributions to these churches made by their membership are tax exempt. One of the arguments in citizens united was that you cannot deny the rights of an individual to a corporation if you place on them the obligations of an individual (e.g., corporations have top pay taxes, a responsibility, ergo they should have the benefits of free speech as well, a benefit/right). By the same logic, if you claim tax exempt status, as an organization, you likewise should not be able to lay claim to all of the rights of an individual (as an organization). The individual members of a church have the right to engage politically in any way they see fit - but if the church itself (as an organization) does so, then I suggest they should lose their tax exempt status.
Very true - but it is a VERY grey line.
Hence the significant grey area...
Again, if I preach on abortion or homosexuality, I don't even have to name a candidate. The liberals outright endorse candidates from their liberal pulpits all the time.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostIt's one of them thar fact thingies.
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostCorrect, and as long as that law is in effect, I will take proper advantage of it.
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI bet the ministerial housing allowance REALLY drives you bonkers. (assuming you know all the implications, including the "double dipping" component)
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostOnly to those opposed to religious liberty. I should be able to preach against abortion or homosexuality based in the Bible, and encourage people to vote their conscience accordingly. I really don't have to name names - it's pretty obvious what each party stands for. WAY more than in the past.
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostSheeeeesh... black churches have gotten away for ages with political candidates preaching from their pulpits, and nobody complained.
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostYou're familiar with "walking around" money in that context?
Again, if I preach on abortion or homosexuality, I don't even have to name a candidate. The liberals outright endorse candidates from their liberal pulpits all the time.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostNot all facts are relevant to the discussion.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostSomething going on with you? You seem like you're in "I'm just out to pick a fight" mode. I'll let you battle with somebody else.
But if you'd rather chat another day, that's cool. I'm going to be signing off shortly anyway.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostYou've made this comment several times, tonight.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI think it was a total of twice. Have fun.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostCool. Three. You win.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostNope.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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