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  • Originally posted by Roy View Post
    Only one nit?
    Nit is like deer or moose - the plural is the same as singular.




    (please don't ruin this by actually looking it up)
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      That should be 2017 not 2018
      I thought you meant the best before date.......


      Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        You do realize that the Winter Solstice has never fallen on December 25th in the past 2000+ years, right? If the early Christians intended on co-opting the solstice don't you think they would have chosen the day it took place on?
        Oopsie...

        Hints: festival dates aren't necessarily astronomical dates; intercalary months; inaccurate calendars...
        Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

        MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
        MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

        seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          Nit is like deer or moose - the plural is the same as singular.




          (please don't ruin this by actually looking it up)
          Illumination strikes! (at one candela per sq metre)
          Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

          MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
          MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

          seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Roy View Post
            Oopsie...

            Hints: festival dates aren't necessarily astronomical dates; intercalary months; inaccurate calendars...
            Even Stone Age cultures were able to accurately predict solstices and equinoxes. If a festival is meant to mark the winter solstice I would think it would be celebrated on the winter solstice (which in the Northern Hemisphere fluctuates between December 20th and 23rd -- and never a few days later on December 25th).

            Thus, I'll modify my statement to satisfy your picked nit, if early Christians wanted to co-opt the solstice don't you think they would have chosen a day it took place on?

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              Even Stone Age cultures were able to accurately predict solstices and equinoxes. If a festival is meant to mark the winter solstice I would think it would be celebrated on the winter solstice (which in the Northern Hemisphere fluctuates between December 20th and 23rd -- and never a few days later on December 25th).
              You might think that, but AFAICT you'd be wrong. It seems the Romans knew when the solstice was, but preferred to celebrate on a fixed data in their fluctuating calendar regardless of its inconsistency with astronomy, rather than hold the festival on a different date. The winter solstice was not necessarily celebrated on the winter solstice.

              There's also the problem that the pre-Julian calendar oscillated quite widely due to the calendar year being some 10 days too short and being occasionally reset by the addition of extra months, meaning that the winter solstice would drift backwards through the calendar then spring forwards by several weeks for sometimes non-calendary reasons (ref). So it's highly likely that the solstice did sometimes match the festival date.
              Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

              MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
              MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

              seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

              Comment


              • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                I've found many religious sites claiming this, including the ones you link to. I'm not finding original support for this anywhere, so I'll withhold judgment.
                Does this help?

                This has references for you to explore.

                I'm curious if you find "original support" for your view.
                Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                sigpic
                I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                Comment


                • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  Except for the fact that "In God We Trust" was on our money many decades before that.
                  Oh I didn't realize they had been doing it on coins since the 1860s. But it doesn't look like it was done on many bills until the 1950s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust

                  Either way, it wasn't originally on U.S. currency.
                  Find my speling strange? I'm trying this out: Simplified Speling. Feel free to join me.

                  "Nature has placed mankind under the governance of two sovereign masters, pain and pleasure. It is for them alone to point out what we ought to do, as well as to determine what we shall do."-Jeremy Bentham

                  "We question all our beliefs, except for the ones that we really believe in, and those we never think to question."-Orson Scott Card

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Roy View Post
                    You might think that, but AFAICT you'd be wrong. It seems the Romans knew when the solstice was, but preferred to celebrate on a fixed data in their fluctuating calendar regardless of its inconsistency with astronomy, rather than hold the festival on a different date. The winter solstice was not necessarily celebrated on the winter solstice.

                    There's also the problem that the pre-Julian calendar oscillated quite widely due to the calendar year being some 10 days too short and being occasionally reset by the addition of extra months, meaning that the winter solstice would drift backwards through the calendar then spring forwards by several weeks for sometimes non-calendary reasons (ref). So it's highly likely that the solstice did sometimes match the festival date.
                    ...but not in the Christian Era, which started several decades after the Julian Calendar was instituted.
                    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                    sigpic
                    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by stfoskey15 View Post
                      Oh I didn't realize they had been doing it on coins since the 1860s. But it doesn't look like it was done on many bills until the 1950s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust

                      Either way, it wasn't originally on U.S. currency.
                      Going back to Abe Lincoln's time is pretty durn significant!
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                        Does this help?

                        This has references for you to explore.

                        I'm curious if you find "original support" for your view.
                        I actually no longer have a view. The issue appears to be in some dispute. Sometimes I just say, "I don't know." The section you provide certainly provides some information, and I may find some time to dig out the resources. However, in the long and short of it, this is not a major issue for me, so I'm good with "I don't know."

                        I will, however, cease claiming that Christian appropriated a pagan festival. The fact is, we don't know they did and it is possible they didn't.
                        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          Going back to Abe Lincoln's time is pretty durn significant!
                          Not if the practice shouldn't be done at all...

                          How long a thing has been done is not an argument that it should be done.
                          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                            There are no eights in "obviously"
                            Damn 8thiest!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              Damn 8thiest!
                              Stupid puns make me want to regurgit8
                              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                                Stupid puns make me want to regurgit8
                                I c8n't help it.

                                I'm a πr8

                                Comment

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