Originally posted by Sparko
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Apologetics 301 Guidelines
If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by mossrose View PostYou didn't answer my other questions.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by mossrose View PostDo you celebrate Christmas and Easter?
Originally posted by mossrose View PostDo you get time off work on Christmas Day?
Originally posted by mossrose View PostGet Easter Monday off?
Originally posted by mossrose View PostOr do you volunteer to work those "holy-days" so Christians can have the day off?
Originally posted by mossrose View PostI just think you're being silly.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Deleted Duplicate...Last edited by carpedm9587; 05-30-2018, 04:27 PM.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Catholicity View PostYou have a chip on your shoulder.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpeOf courser you do. So I'll ask the same question Sparko refuses to answer: if the currency said "We do not trust in god," would you happily exchange the currency, or would you seek to use electronic means as much as possible?
I carry some cash with me all the time. However, I already mostly use electronic means. More for convenience than anything else.
I think you should not celebrate Christmas, regardless of your family's wishes. It is a Christian holy day, and that goes against what you believe. Just like "in God we trust" on the money.
Now, my other question to you is still awaiting a reply.
Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.
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Originally posted by Rushing Jaws View PostI am totally in favour of being “told what to believe”, if the authority is one that I recognise as having the right, or the duty, to do so. I don’t see how it is possible to teach or to govern, if one does not have authority to do this. Every learner driver, everyone being trained to do a job, can learn to act rightly as a driver or worker only if they have the humility to accept instruction, advice and correction from those who are qualified by experience and knowledge and practice and insight to “tell them what to believe”.
Originally posted by Rushing Jaws View PostSturdy independence and self-sufficiency are all very well, but if people want to leave together in harmony, these things cannot be unlimited.
The Church has a duty to teach those who will listen, whether she wishes to do so or not. It is her business to “teach with authority”, and to “tell people what to believe”. This is because she believes herself to have received a Divine Revelation, meant for the entire human race, one which she has received in the confidence that it is true, and is worthy of acceptance, and in need of being known. The Church is missionary and evangelical of her very nature - it is no good expecting her not to be missionary, or not to evangelise, because she is driven to do so by an inner and over-ruling compulsion. One might as well expect flame not to burn, or water not to be wet.
As for government: I disagree, though I can see reasons in favour of that position. The state ought to profess that religion which is deemed to be true - something Islam has understood.
Originally posted by Rushing Jaws View PostI’m not from the US, and Catholic Christianity is, and must be, more important to me than my country. So I reject the view, which seems fairly common, that one’s country must take precedence over one’s loyalty to God.
Originally posted by Rushing Jaws View PostThe Church is more important than the State, because the Church has a more excellent end than the State.
Originally posted by Rushing Jaws View PostFor the Church exists to foster life with Christ, in this world and the next; whereas the State exists to promote the good of its subjects alone, in this world alone. The Church will therefore last forever, but no State will do so. Far from men being insignificant compared with the numberless stars, it is men who will last forever, and the heavens that are insignificant and temporary. So the contrary idea, that turns upon several science videos, is back-to-front. A single human being is worth more than all multiverses.
Originally posted by Rushing Jaws View PostThe rights of the human person are not absolute, for man is always and in all things subject to his Creator. Whatever rights man has, therefore, are bounded by, and founded upon, his relation to the God in Whose Image he has been created. God has claims upon man, and the most basic of these is the right to be acknowledged as God. So there can be no true right to worship any other God - at most, there can be an imagined right to do so, founded in positive law but not in the equity that laws ought to embody. Rights are true rights, rights worthy of that name, only if they reflect the known Character and Will of God. If they are contrary to this, they are no true rights at all, but are imaginary rights. Abortion is a grave evil - therefore, there can be no true (because God-given) right to have an abortion. Since this imaginary right has however been conceded, it can be argued that, in order to avoid worse evils, the unjust legislation that allows this unjust practice must be tolerated, until such time as something better can take its place. It can be tolerated, but not approved. And this injustice cannot be opposed by bombing abortion facilities, or murdering medical personnel who perform abortions, or by maligning politicians.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Deleted duplicateThe ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Jedidiah View PostThat is exactly how I took your remark about "religions belong in churches." The fact is that my faith in Jesus Christ is a major influence in my voting, and I have every right to use whatever I see fit to inform my vote. That can well be seen as an imposition of my faith atheists.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by mossrose View PostAnother question, for carpe alone, please.
If you saw a bill of any denomination lying on the ground, would you pick it up?
Or would you leave it there for someone with fewer scruples than you to take?
At what denomination would you deign to stoop down at pick it up?
And someone who believes in god and picks it up is not showing "fewer scruples." The motto aligns with their beliefs.
Originally posted by mossrose View PostI'd also like you to answer my other questions.Last edited by carpedm9587; 05-30-2018, 04:26 PM.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by seer View PostExcept we live in a Country that grounds human rights in God, our founding declaration. You just can not separate religion (especially the Christian religion) from the nature and character of this nation.
http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostI find it ironic that a guy who hated the idea of a National Bank is on our national currency.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by mossrose View PostI don't care what the currency says on it. I know the majority of people in your country and mine do not trust in God. They have other gods and money is one of them, of course. As Jesus told the Pharisees and Herodians, "render unto Caesar", etc. Money is nothing to me. And what it says on it means nothing to me.
I carry some cash with me all the time. However, I already mostly use electronic means. More for convenience than anything else.
I think you should not celebrate Christmas, regardless of your family's wishes. It is a Christian holy day, and that goes against what you believe.
Originally posted by mossrose View PostJust like "in God we trust" on the money.
Now, my other question to you is still awaiting a reply.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
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Originally posted by carpeChristmas originated as a Christian holy day, and is still celebrated as such by many. It has also become a cultural holiday - for gift giving and gathering. Christmas is more about "Santa" and "Rudolph" to me than "Jesus" and the dawn of Christianity. I have no problem joining in the festivities - I am not celebrating "Jesus," I am celebrating family and friends.
But it disturbs you enough to make a thread about it here that the money of the country you live in has a motto on it that you don't agree with. And you refrain from using that currency to make a point. To whom, I'm not sure.
In other words, you want every mention of God, specifically the Christian God, removed from anything and everything, regardless of the reasons why those mentions were in place at the beginning of your country. And you don't want believers to have even the slightest ability at all to declare their faith openly in public.
Well, I want you to only celebrate Christmas as commemorating the birth of the Saviour, Creator, and Sustainer of the Universe. If you can't do that, I don't want you to celebrate Christmas at all.
But, I won't hold my breath on that one......
Answered...
Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostOur declaration of independence is not our "founding" document. It simply declared our intent to separate from England. Our founding document is our Constitution - the document that established our system of government and serves as the basis for all of our laws. The founders explicitly omitted any reference to god from this document - which tells us something. And the one reference made to religion forbids the government from establishing a religion or preventing the free exercise thereof.
And again, the Constitution does not deal with the source of rights, that was already established by the DoI.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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