Direction of the Country

[Tassman]

Yep the left wants to teach our children what to think. we conservatives here in America want or children taught how to think. one is indoctrination the other is education.

One cannot think critically without the necessary educational grounding. "The U.S. education system is mediocre compared to the rest of the world, according to an international ranking of OECD countries".

https://www.theatlantic.com/educatio...t-math/281983/

[Roy]

That looks like the kind of logic Dimbulb and Ignorant Roy are using in the abortion thread to defend their assertion that skin cells and sperm are organisms.

You're stupid, lying, or (most likely) both. I'm not asserting that.

[Mountain Man]

You're stupid, lying, or (most likely) both. I'm not asserting that [sperm are organisms].

A liar accusing me of lying? What a shock.

From the other thread:

At the moment of ejaculation, the resulting organisms:

1) Meet even the most conservative scientific definition of life.
2) Have human DNA.
3) Are guilty of no legal or moral wrong.

Therefore, failure to reach an egg first kills millions of innocent human lives.

Q.E.D

[Cow Poke]

A lot of US conservatives wouldn't agree with you that education is a good thing...

It's that we think a GOOD education would be a better thing. I was going to use a quote to make my point, but I was concerned somebody would attack the source as 'too conservative'.

HOWEVER, since Tassman used that exact same source and quote, I'll assume it's not in dispute ....

One cannot think critically without the necessary educational grounding. "The U.S. education system is mediocre compared to the rest of the world, according to an international ranking of OECD countries".

https://www.theatlantic.com/educatio...t-math/281983/

And the REASON that the US Education system is so mediocre is because it's no longer run by educators but by a mega labor union.

[Roy]

That looks like the kind of logic Dimbulb and Ignorant Roy are using in the abortion thread to defend their assertion that skin cells and sperm are organisms.

You're stupid, lying, or (most likely) both. I'm not asserting that [sperm are organisms].

A liar accusing me of lying? What a shock.

You are lying. I have never asserted that skin cells are organisms. That's a lie on your part.

That you omitted skin cells from your "[sperm are organisms]" makes it clear that you are fully aware of your own dishonesty.

(I didn't actually assert that sperm were organisms either, but that's less obvious)

[Mountain Man]

You are lying. I have never asserted that skin cells are organisms. That's a lie on your part.

That you omitted skin cells from your "[sperm are organisms]" makes it clear that you are fully aware of your own dishonesty.

(I didn't actually assert that sperm were organisms either, but that's less obvious)

Nitpicking won't get you out of this one.

[JimL]

It's that we think a GOOD education would be a better thing. I was going to use a quote to make my point, but I was concerned somebody would attack the source as 'too conservative'.

HOWEVER, since Tassman used that exact same source and quote, I'll assume it's not in dispute ....

That's just a long time, anti-union, consevative, talking point, which also happens to not even make sense.

And the REASON that the US Education system is so mediocre is because it's no longer run by educators but by a mega labor union.

That's just a long time anti-union, conservative talking point which, btw, also happens not to make a lick of sense.

[One Bad Pig]

Nitpicking won't get you out of this one.

Roy loves tangling with you because you give him so many openings. Here, you failed to support half of your assertion. Can you support that half with evidence?

[carpedm9587]

I have been thinking about the claims that the left indoctrinates (what to think) and the right educates (how to think). While I suppose it probably makes people feel better about their views (and I have heard both sides say it about the other side) I don't think it passes the sniff test.

First, I am an educator. The difference between education and indoctrination is not as simple as "how to think" versus "what to think." Indoctrination is definitely "what to think." Education can be (and often is) both. That is true because we don't require every generation to repeat the paths of previous generations. So while we should teach students how to experimentally derive the atomic weight and structure of an element (especially budding scientists), we also provide them with the periodic table. The former is how - the latter is what. And though we should teach students how to "do history," we also give them a history book that traces the history as it has been discovered thus far. The former is how, the latter is what. We don't require every student to re-excavate Tut's tomb - we share with them what the people going before them found in Tut's tomb.

I don't think either side can claim innocence of indoctrination. Indeed, in my experience, each side tends to call the views of the other side "indoctrination" if they don't happen to agree with them. I think each side is being just a tad too self-congratulatory to claim they "educate" and the other side "indoctrinates."

[Bill the Cat]

Not at all. I think questions about happiness are the best questions of all to ask, because it's the thing you most want to maximize.

Different things make different people happy. To narrow them down to income, healthy life expectancy, social support, freedom, trust and generosity is asking for bogus results.

"Direction of the country" by contrast is one of the worst kinds of questions to ask. Some people might answer it as if it had to do with happiness, others might answer it as if it had to do with something else entirely. It's going to get a nonsense mishmash of conflated responses.

Direction of the country should have everything to do with individual freedoms and economic prosperity. It has nothing to do with how happy people are.

[Cow Poke]

That's just a long time anti-union, conservative talking point which, btw, also happens not to make a lick of sense.

Jim! Welcome back! I've missed you!

[Sparko]

Like most political polls, it depends almost entirely on who paid for the study since the results are pretty easy to manipulate depending on who and what is asked. I once responded to one telephone survey, and it went something like this:

"Are you in favor of increasing personal income tax?"
"No."
"Are you in favor of increasing business taxes?"
"No."
"Are you more in favor of increasing personal income tax, or increasing business taxes?"
"I'm not in favor of either."
"You have to pick one."
"But I'm not in favor of raising taxes, period. They're high enough as it is, so put that down as my answer."
"I can't. You have to pick one or the other."
"But that doesn't reflect my actual opinion."
"If you don't answer the question then your entire participation will be thrown out."
"Throw it out then. Good bye."

Notice that no matter how someone responded to that particular survey, the results would have said that people were in favor of raising taxes but were "divided" on whether it should be personal income or business taxes that should be raised. I haven't bothered responding to any poll since.

Yeah I got some poll like that before the election, basically what i thought of various local issues and politician, half of whom I did not even know. The questions were clearly stacked. I wasted about 3 minutes before I hung up.

[rogue06]

And the REASON that the US Education system is so mediocre is because it's no longer run by educators but by a mega labor union.

Ever seen the schedule of events at a NEA national conference? In the 3 years that I was privy to seeing them (I was dating a teacher), not one time did they discuss anything to do with education. Not once.

[rogue06]

Yeah I got some poll like that before the election, basically what i thought of various local issues and politician, half of whom I did not even know. The questions were clearly stacked. I wasted about 3 minutes before I hung up.

Those are a type of "push poll" intended solely to produce a certain result by any means necessary

[Cow Poke]

Ever seen the schedule of events at a NEA national conference? In the 3 years that I was privy to seeing them (I was dating a teacher), not one time did they discuss anything to do with education. Not once.

Because they're a LABOR union, far more interested in their own membership, dues, salaries, and covering each other's butts.... My wife went in one day to talk to a teacher about our daughter's math challenges, because it was reported that this particular math class was just pure chaos, no teaching being done --- and the teacher told her "You just need to leave that to us, WE are the professional educators" with a flare like "you're only the parent".

Fortunately, that was back in the days before my wife started carrying a handgun.