Originally posted by Cow Poke
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Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
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Which OT Laws are carried over to the NT?
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"I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostProblem is, this argument is big among the pro homosexuality crowd, who dont see it as a violation of the two great commandments. We have more work to do.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by NorrinRadd View PostPer Eph. 2, Col. 3, Gal. 3, Heb. 7, and others, I believe that the entirety of the Law of the Obsolete Covenant -- each and every decree, ordinance, and Commandment -- has been abolished, cancelled, nailed to the Cross, hung on the Tree. The "laws" of the New Covenant are to have faith in Jesus as I AM, and to love one another / love our neighbors as ourselves / treat others as we wish others to treat us.
Jesus is our peace who has broken down the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances. What are these ordinances?
What did Jesus mean when He said that He did not come to abolish the Law and the Prophets, but to fulfill them?
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostTeaching them the true meaning of love would mitigate that - if they were willing to learn."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostThe moral law of the old testament is still in "effect" - basically what is right and wrong (stealing, lying, murdering, coveting, sexual immorality etc) but the punishments or consequences are no longer in effect, nor are the ceremonial laws (dealing with cleanliness, sacrifices, wearing or eating certain things)
And also as gentiles, we were never under the OT law. That was for hebrews.
Acts 21:25
As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.”
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Originally posted by Hornet View PostSome people say that the Law of Moses was a unit and that it cannot be divided up into different parts such as the moral law and the ceremonial. How would you respond to this?"I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by Hornet View PostDoes God's institution of marriage in the Book of Genesis rule out homosexuality?
Awhile back, a couple of people tried to use natural law theory to argue against homosexuality. I pointed out that this would prove more than most people wanted. For example, the act of pitching a baseball overhand is inherently unnatural to the arm (this is not controversial within baseball circles, and pitcher injury rates are fairly high), but nobody was willing to concede that baseball was thus sinful. I think it's best if we simply conclude that homosexuality is sinful because God directly said so."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by Hornet View PostSome people say that the Law of Moses was a unit and that it cannot be divided up into different parts such as the moral law and the ceremonial. How would you respond to this?
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Following the Law as a basis for our morality is still valid and IMO, good, what was done away with was the reliance on obedience to the Law in order to have right standing with God...that was replaced with the Cross. "There is now no more condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus..." But, if you life doesn't change, then maybe your future home location has not changed as well."What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer
"... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen
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Originally posted by NorrinRadd View PostPer Eph. 2, Col. 3, Gal. 3, Heb. 7, and others, I believe that the entirety of the Law of the Obsolete Covenant -- each and every decree, ordinance, and Commandment -- has been abolished, cancelled, nailed to the Cross, hung on the Tree. The "laws" of the New Covenant are to have faith in Jesus as I AM, and to love one another / love our neighbors as ourselves / treat others as we wish others to treat us.
Which is BTW one reason to stop worrying about whether OT narratives happened as described, IMO. The NT Christian’s “setting in life” is not the Law, as it was for the Jews; it is Christ. Not a God-given Code, but a God-given Christ.
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Originally posted by NorrinRadd View PostIncest was not only morally acceptable, but absolutely necessary at the beginning of Creation.
So, from our perspective now, creepy and "ew," but not a moral absolute.
1. Gen. 4 is not biography.
2. If God can be OK with incest, which is unrighteous later on, His Righteousness either:
a) is OK with what is evil - or
b) changes its moral content, so that incest, from being OK, becomes wicked - or
c) the Divine attitude to incest is changeable and capricious - or
d) the OT is just a lot of people writing down their best, fallible, guesses as to God’s Character - or
e) the OT may reveal God’s Righteous Character, but the readers have to guess which parts reveal it, & which don’t.
If God can be OK with incest, why not with genocide, and with God knows what other horrors ? God, one assumes, must be at least as righteous as a morally good man. So if human beings are not OK with incest, I don’t see how God, Who is Infinite in Goodness, Righteousness and Holiness, can have been OK with it. STM the widespread and ancient taboo against incest is a reflection of God’s Righteousness.
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostBy itself, I think it would be an inconclusive argument though it can help explain why homosexuality is prohibited elsewhere. I prefer to stick with the direct prohibitions in Scripture.
Awhile back, a couple of people tried to use natural law theory to argue against homosexuality. I pointed out that this would prove more than most people wanted. For example, the act of pitching a baseball overhand is inherently unnatural to the arm (this is not controversial within baseball circles, and pitcher injury rates are fairly high), but nobody was willing to concede that baseball was thus sinful. I think it's best if we simply conclude that homosexuality is sinful because God directly said so.
I think it is hard to make a natural law argument against homosexual marriage. One could say that homosexual marriage does not fulfill all of the purposes of marriage, but who defines the purpose of marriage? I think its best to say what God says about it.
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Originally posted by Hornet View PostThat's true. The Book of Genesis does not prohibit homosexuality.
I think it is hard to make a natural law argument against homosexual marriage. One could say that homosexual marriage does not fulfill all of the purposes of marriage, but who defines the purpose of marriage? I think its best to say what God says about it.
One could quite justifiably say that homosexual 'marriage' fulfills NONE of the purposes of marriage.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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