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Thread: SCOTUS & gay wedding cakes

  1. #581
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    Since no one has successfully (IMO) refuted the genetics argument...of course I return to it. It is the heart of my argument and the heart of the inconsistency made by those advocating for the baker.
    Because:
    1. There is no reason to "refute" it because it is nothing but an equivocation on your part. There is no "genetic" discrimination other than in your "story"
    2. Even if there WERE genetic discrimination, so what? Why would that be "wrong"? Nothing is really 'wrong' in your view anyway. So your picking that hill to die on is ridiculous. Might as well argue the color of their skin was what he was discriminating against because both of them were white.

    I can list many "genetic" differences that you would have no problem in discriminating against someone on. I mentioned them before. Addiction for example. If someone had genetics that made them have an addictive personality, you would still be fine in arresting someone for drug abuse. You wouldn't argue that it was discrimination because they were genetically disposed to addiction. You don't have any problem with keeping men out of women's locker rooms do you? Isn't that discrimination based on what is between their legs?

  2. #582
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    I have not seen anything in any of the reporting that suggests they were unwilling to. The reports I have read indicate the baker would not sell any wedding cake to them if it was to be used for a wedding in which two people of the same sex were marrying. I know other things have been reported in this discussion, but after the ruling I dug around and could not find any of that affirmed.
    Because he does more than stick a topper on a generic cake. He decorates the cake, shaping them to specs, painting them, and even caters them at the wedding, delivering and cutting the cakes. Did you even watch the video I posted earlier?

  3. #583
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    No one is being required to abandon their religious beliefs. They ARE required to provide any service they choose to provide without prejudice, or not provide the service. The baker has a way to follow his conscience/beliefs without engaging in prejudice.
    The baker chose to not provide the service, thus following his conscience/beliefs without engaging in prejudice.
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  4. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  5. #584
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    In the 1950s, your sentence would have read, "Yet "I'm black" is all that is sufficient to coerce someone into abandoning their religious beliefs"
    To be consistent you should be demanding that black bakers cater a KKK wedding, even being forced to make a cake saying something to the effect of "Ship All The [n-word] Back to Africa" complete with a little figure of a lynched black person. If they balk they should then be branded as bigots and threatened with having their business destroyed.

    And how about a Jewish baker being compelled to design a birthday cake for some neo-Nazis in the shape of the concentration camp at Auschwitz complete with little smokestack shaped candles.

    I'm always still in trouble again

  6. #585
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Because he does more than stick a topper on a generic cake. He decorates the cake, shaping them to specs, painting them, and even caters them at the wedding, delivering and cutting the cakes. Did you even watch the video I posted earlier?
    Yep - I did. And if he provides those services to "couples marrying," he is discriminating and showing bigotry/prejudice when he refuses to provide those services for all marrying couples. He can avoid the problem by simply not providing wedding cakes and turning to other themed cakes that are not problematic (e.g., retirement cakes, birthday cakes, grand-opening cakes, etc.). There are many contexts in which custom cakes are requested, and a perfectly adequate income can be derived. And there is the entire rest of the universe of bakery goods.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

    -Martin Luther King

  7. #586
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    The baker chose to not provide the service, thus following his conscience/beliefs without engaging in prejudice.
    You were OK up to the highlighted part. That part cannot be avoided in the context of his choice.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

    -Martin Luther King

  8. #587
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    To be consistent you should be demanding that black bakers cater a KKK wedding, even being forced to make a cake saying something to the effect of "Ship All The [n-word] Back to Africa" complete with a little figure of a lynched black person. If they balk they should then be branded as bigots and threatened with having their business destroyed.

    And how about a Jewish baker being compelled to design a birthday cake for some neo-Nazis in the shape of the concentration camp at Auschwitz complete with little smokestack shaped candles.
    I have responded to all of this in previous posts, and showed how these parallels fail.

    As with the other thread, this one is basically stuck in a loop and will continue endlessly, with everyone repeating the same arguments until someone decides to get off the merry-go-round. So I am going to do exactly that. If something new surfaces in the posts, I'll be happy to respond. If someone asks me a direct question I have not responded to, I will likewise be happy to respond. Otherwise, I will leave the last word to you.

    Sparko - I think this is where you follow up with a post trying to egg me back into the discussion...
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

    -Martin Luther King

  9. #588
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    Yep - I did. And if he provides those services to "couples marrying," he is discriminating and showing bigotry/prejudice when he refuses to provide those services for all marrying couples. He can avoid the problem by simply not providing wedding cakes and turning to other themed cakes that are not problematic (e.g., retirement cakes, birthday cakes, grand-opening cakes, etc.). There are many contexts in which custom cakes are requested, and a perfectly adequate income can be derived. And there is the entire rest of the universe of bakery goods.
    And you don't see how you are forcing the categorization of both the product and the people to fit your narrative? We all see it, and find it disingenuous of you.

    Rather than admit the baker is objecting to making a cake is for a gay wedding, you have to find a way to always bring it back to genetics or the people, despite the fact that he has sold items to gay couples in the past for other events. So here instead of admitting he is against gay marriage, you redefine it as "couples marrying" who happen to be "the same sex" so he is discriminating.

    Yet, would you have a problem if he refused to make a wedding cake for a heterosexual couple if they were siblings? Or if he refused to make a wedding cake for a couple who were each previously divorced and he said he didn't believe in divorce so the new marriage was invalid?

    The guy insists it was because of the event. SCOTUS agreed. Only you refuse to admit it or take him at his word. Because you have an agenda and like a dog with a bone, you are not going to give it up. No matter how wrong you are.

  10. Amen Cerebrum123, RumTumTugger, oxmixmudd amen'd this post.
  11. #589
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    You were OK up to the highlighted part. That part cannot be avoided in the context of his choice.
    That's not what your post said.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio

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  12. #590
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    That's not what your post said.
    OK - I'm intrigued. Where did any post I made support your statement...?
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

    -Martin Luther King

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