SCOTUS & gay wedding cakes

[rogue06]

But the beatings will continue until the horse revives and wins the Triple Crown!

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Been awhile since I used that smiley

[Tassman]

I'm reasonably sure the horse is dead.

That "horse" was never alive to begin with. It was a non-existent horse.

2) you probably know, but have to pervert this concept into "just a cake" to accommodate your attack on Christianity

Diddums! You poor persecuted Evangelicals.

It's an "attack" on religious bigotry not on Christianity. Christians are entitled to believe any crap they want to believe, just as a gay couple wanting a wedding cake are entitled to service in a 'public accommodation' as per the Civil Rights Act.

[Cow Poke]

That "horse" was never alive to begin with. It was a non-existent horse.

You spend SO MUCH time on issues you consider "non-existent", Tass.

Diddums! You poor persecuted Evangelicals.

That's just goofy - I don't know anybody on our side who is crying. Your attacks are downright nutty. Why do you have to do this dramaqueenery, Tass?

It's an "attack" on religious bigotry not on Christianity.

Nope.

Christians are entitled to believe any crap they want to believe, just as a gay couple wanting a wedding cake are entitled to service in a 'public accommodation' as per the Civil Rights Act.

And they could walk in and buy any cake off the shelf, no problem. Have you totally abandoned the nutty "It's JUST A CAKE" argument?

[Tassman]

Have you totally abandoned the nutty "It's JUST A CAKE" argument?

have you abandoned your "nutty" argument that a traditional wedding cake with two male or female figurines on top constitutes high art?

[Leonhard]

high art

A useless qualifier. The law protects art as a freedom of speech. And that doesn't depend on how good or bad it is.

[Leonhard]

It's an "attack" on religious bigotry not on Christianity.

It is an attack on Christians, specifically and strangely systematic even. No other religious group that doesn't endorse gay marriage have been targeted or affected. Some members of the LGBTQ want a legal billy club to hit Christians with.

Thankfully I don't think they're going to get it for the time being.

Have you forgotten that this is how the baker won the case? By it being very obvious that throughout his case his religious beliefs had been questioned, and attacked? The Supreme Court found that a greater injustice had been done against him on those grounds, and therefore dropped the case.

[Leonhard]

If the baker sells custom designed wedding cakes to heterosexuals, then he sells custom designed wedding cakes period, and so can't discriminate as to who he designs them for.

As Starlight agreed to he can object to the design if it is a custom work. At best what you're saying here is that he can't prevent someone from buying a cake from a catalogue with minor variations. Buy a custom made cake he can object to based on its design, or its message. That would come under an artistic commission, and therefore freedom of speech.

There''s not much to raffle about here.

[Leonhard]

But of course it is. Everyone knows that evil homosexuals enjoy persecuting good and decent Evangelicals.

You really need to get out of your bubble. Some actually do, some are angry because they have memories of being bullied by Christians, some LGBTQ are furious that this or that denomination won't recognise their marriage in a religious setting. Those people exist. I've met them, seen them, and talked to them.

Most of them however don't really care about the baker issues, and take a more reasonable position like Starlights that standard wedding cakes, sold with minor alterations and or figurines and chocolate for decoration sold separately is all a baker would need to sell. However custom made cakes, most LGBTQ people agree fall under freedom of speech.

[rogue06]

A useless qualifier. The law protects art as a freedom of speech. And that doesn't depend on how good or bad it is.

It is ironic that the left wants to ignore something they have pushed and hid behind for years. How many times have they screamed it is art and defended by freedom of expression when some hate-filled person depicts a president that they don't like being murdered?

[rogue06]

As Starlight agreed to he can object to the design if it is a custom work. At best what you're saying here is that he can't prevent someone from buying a cake from a catalogue with minor variations. Buy a custom made cake he can object to based on its design, or its message. That would come under an artistic commission, and therefore freedom of speech.

There''s not much to raffle about here.

Exactly. They can even have a custom cake made and then make whatever modifications they want themselves.

[Cow Poke]

have you abandoned your "nutty" argument that a traditional wedding cake with two male or female figurines on top constitutes high art?

More dishonesty? When have I ever claimed it's "high art"?

[Cow Poke]

A useless qualifier. The law protects art as a freedom of speech. And that doesn't depend on how good or bad it is.

When Tassman doesn't really have a point, he resorts to perverting language.

[Cow Poke]

Exactly. They can even have a custom cake made and then make whatever modifications they want themselves.

Who was it that accidentally made the emphasis on "taking the little figurines out of the box and placing them on the cake" as a simple task the baker could be forced to do? If that's all there is to it, then the same-sex couple could do that themselves. Problem solved. But, no, they want to force the baker to do that.

ETA: Here it is....

... If figurines come in a box and the cake artist has the truly difficult job of opening a box, picking up the figurines and putting them on the top of the cake, then they can just do it and not whine, and if they really truly cannot bring themselves to do that action, they can supply the completed cake plus the box with figurines in it and let the couple place it on top of the cake. ....

I think he didn't realize he was making the case for the same sex couple to purchase a cake, and place the two grooms or two brides on the cake themselves.

[JimL]

As Starlight agreed to he can object to the design if it is a custom work. At best what you're saying here is that he can't prevent someone from buying a cake from a catalogue with minor variations. Buy a custom made cake he can object to based on its design, or its message. That would come under an artistic commission, and therefore freedom of speech.

There''s not much to raffle about here.

Disagree, the baker would be discriminating against the person, or persons, who are commisioning the baker to produce a cake for a perfectly legal event. Discrimination against a people is illegal.

[Leonhard]

Disagree, the baker would be discriminating against the person, or persons, who are commisioning the baker to produce a cake for a perfectly legal event. Discrimination against a people is illegal.

Except the baker is not discriminating against the person, if a heterosexual person asked for a similar cake. The request would be denied. It is a person who disagrees with the notion of marriage as proposed, and doesn't want to custom tailor a message in support of that.

You can get angry that you don't get to use the law to make a Christian bake a cake celebrating a gay wedding, but the baker should have a right to not make a custom artwork in support of an ideology he disagrees with.

They're free to buy a standard form wedding cake, with white glazing, some tulips made out of icing, and get the implements and figurines on the side.