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SCOTUS & gay wedding cakes

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  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    So you think it is OK to force an artist to create custom artwork for you?
    I think an artist cannot discriminate against a customer on the basis of their race, sex, or ethnicity, and cannot hide behind "I'm an artist" to do so.

    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    Can a KKK group demand a graphic artist create a website and logo for their next cross burning event? After all the graphic artist's service is to provide logos for his clients.
    And the KKK is not differentiated by sex, race, or ethnicity. There is no prejudice in refusing to create a hateful message.

    And before you go there...it's not a "gay wedding cake." It's just a wedding cake. The discrimination has already happened when you put "gay" in front of it. We've already had this discussion.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

    Comment


    • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
      And before you go there...it's not a "gay wedding cake." It's just a wedding cake. The discrimination has already happened when you put "gay" in front of it. We've already had this discussion.
      You mean, you've already expressed your incorrect opinion.

      Even CNN knows it's about a...

      Supreme Court rules for Colorado baker in same-sex wedding cake case
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        You mean, you've already expressed your incorrect opinion.

        Even CNN knows it's about a...

        Supreme Court rules for Colorado baker in same-sex wedding cake case
        Yes - the case was about a wedding cake for a same sex wedding, so a headline will shrink that as much as it can. And yes, you can search for "gay wedding cake" and "same sex wedding cake" and, surprise, surprise, up comes a same-sex wedding cake. And do you know what comes up if you search for opposite-sex wedding cake or heterosexual wedding cake? Try it.

        Same sex weddings are fairly new, so they are still differentiated. It doesn't change the fact that the only difference between a same-sex wedding and an opposite-sex wedding is (wait for it)... the sex of the participants! Tada!

        That means that morality is being determined by genetics.

        That's exactly what we did when white people and black people wanted to marry each other! Bad! Why? Genetics.

        See how that works...?
        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

        Comment


        • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
          Yes - the case was about a wedding cake for a same sex wedding
          Yes, a same-sex wedding cake!
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            Yes, a same-sex wedding cake!
            You're not going to get him to acknowledge that, because it tears the foundation out from beneath his case.
            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

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            Comment


            • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
              You're not going to get him to acknowledge that, because it tears the foundation out from beneath his case.
              I know, and I was outta this thread, but I'm waiting on a repairman, so I'm bored.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                I think an artist cannot discriminate against a customer on the basis of their race, sex, or ethnicity, and cannot hide behind "I'm an artist" to do so.
                You didn't answer the question. You dodged again.

                Do you think it is OK to force an artist to create custom artwork for you?


                And the KKK is not differentiated by sex, race, or ethnicity. There is no prejudice in refusing to create a hateful message.

                And before you go there...it's not a "gay wedding cake." It's just a wedding cake. The discrimination has already happened when you put "gay" in front of it. We've already had this discussion.
                It's not a racist logo, it's just a logo that happens to be used for a racist purpose.

                You seem fine with an artist refusing to perform art on demand in all cases except this special one, wedding cakes. Special pleading.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                  You're not going to get him to acknowledge that, because it tears the foundation out from beneath his case.
                  He's not going to get me to admit that because it is the heart of the bigotry!
                  The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                  I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                    He's not going to get me to admit that because it is the heart of the bigotry!
                    No, it is the only way you can characterize what the baker did as bigotry. Otherwise you have to admit he was just following his principals against gay weddings.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                      He's not going to get me to admit that because it is the heart of the bigotry!
                      No, you just assigned bigotry to it so you could have a reason to argue against it.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        You didn't answer the question. You dodged again.

                        Do you think it is OK to force an artist to create custom artwork for you?
                        No.

                        I think an artist that voluntarily provides a service cannot discriminate against me because of my sex, my race, or my ethnicity.

                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        It's not a racist logo, it's just a logo that happens to be used for a racist purpose.
                        Right. Keep telling yourself that.

                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        You seem fine with an artist refusing to perform art on demand in all cases except this special one, wedding cakes. Special pleading.
                        Actually - not at all. No artist can be forced to articulate a view they find reprehensible. However, when what they "find reprehensible" is discriminatory, we have a different issue.
                        • I do not believe in racism and won't make cakes with racist slogans/logos - no problem. Racism is ugly and immoral and the same rule applies for all weddings regardless of sex, race, or ethnicity.
                        • I do not believe in sexism and won't make cakes with sexist slogans/logos - no problem. Sexism is ugly and immoral and the same rule applies for all weddings regardless of sex, race, or ethnicity.
                        • I do not believe in weddings and won't make cakes with wedding slogans/logos - no problem. You are free to think weddings are ugly and immoral. (odd as that is to me). Again, the same rule applies for all weddings regardless of sex, race, or ethnicity.
                        • I do not believe in Nazi weddings and won't make cakes with Nazi wedding slogans/logos - this is a variation on the first one - and the issue is about the message, not the race, sex, or ethnicity of the people marrying. All Nazis will be denied, without regard to race, sex, or ethnicity.
                        • I do not believe in happy weddings and won't make cakes with happy wedding slogans/logos - You are free to think weddings should be unhappy. (odd as that is to me). Again, the same rule applies for all weddings regardless of sex, race, or ethnicity.


                        Then we have:
                        • I do not believe in gay weddings and won't make cakes for a gay wedding - now we have a problem. The service is being denied because of the sex of the two participants in the wedding, so service is being denied WITH regard to sex, race, or ethnicity.
                        • I do not believe in mixed race weddings and won't make cakes for a mixed race wedding - now we have a problem. The service is being denied because of the race of the two participants in the wedding, so service is being denied WITH regard to sex, race, or ethnicity.
                        • I do not believe people of different ethnicities should be allowed to marry, so I won't make cakes for a mixed ethnicity wedding - now we have a problem. The service is being denied because of the ethnicity of the two participants in the wedding, so service is being denied WITH regard to sex, race, or ethnicity.


                        These are examples of bigotry and prejudice. They should not be permitted in our society. People are entitled to their views, but they are not entitled to limit access to publicly offered services on the basis of race, sex, or ethnicity.
                        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          No, it is the only way you can characterize what the baker did as bigotry. Otherwise you have to admit he was just following his principals against gay weddings.
                          I'm not making the baker a bigot, Sparko. He's doing that all on his little lonesome. I'm just calling it for what it is.
                          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            No, you just assigned bigotry to it so you could have a reason to argue against it.
                            No.
                            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                              No.
                              Yeah huh!
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                                I'm not making the baker a bigot, Sparko. He's doing that all on his little lonesome. I'm just calling it for what it is.
                                One step at a time, OK?

                                It is my sincerely held religious belief that 'gay marriage' is not valid.

                                Does that make me a bigot?
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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