Originally posted by One Bad Pig
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SCOTUS & gay wedding cakes
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The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostTo be consistent you should be demanding that black bakers cater a KKK wedding, even being forced to make a cake saying something to the effect of "Ship All The [n-word] Back to Africa" complete with a little figure of a lynched black person. If they balk they should then be branded as bigots and threatened with having their business destroyed.
And how about a Jewish baker being compelled to design a birthday cake for some neo-Nazis in the shape of the concentration camp at Auschwitz complete with little smokestack shaped candles.
As with the other thread, this one is basically stuck in a loop and will continue endlessly, with everyone repeating the same arguments until someone decides to get off the merry-go-round. So I am going to do exactly that. If something new surfaces in the posts, I'll be happy to respond. If someone asks me a direct question I have not responded to, I will likewise be happy to respond. Otherwise, I will leave the last word to you.
Sparko - I think this is where you follow up with a post trying to egg me back into the discussion...The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostYep - I did. And if he provides those services to "couples marrying," he is discriminating and showing bigotry/prejudice when he refuses to provide those services for all marrying couples. He can avoid the problem by simply not providing wedding cakes and turning to other themed cakes that are not problematic (e.g., retirement cakes, birthday cakes, grand-opening cakes, etc.). There are many contexts in which custom cakes are requested, and a perfectly adequate income can be derived. And there is the entire rest of the universe of bakery goods.
Rather than admit the baker is objecting to making a cake is for a gay wedding, you have to find a way to always bring it back to genetics or the people, despite the fact that he has sold items to gay couples in the past for other events. So here instead of admitting he is against gay marriage, you redefine it as "couples marrying" who happen to be "the same sex" so he is discriminating.
Yet, would you have a problem if he refused to make a wedding cake for a heterosexual couple if they were siblings? Or if he refused to make a wedding cake for a couple who were each previously divorced and he said he didn't believe in divorce so the new marriage was invalid?
The guy insists it was because of the event. SCOTUS agreed. Only you refuse to admit it or take him at his word. Because you have an agenda and like a dog with a bone, you are not going to give it up. No matter how wrong you are.
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostYou were OK up to the highlighted part. That part cannot be avoided in the context of his choice.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostThat's not what your post said.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostTo be consistent you should be demanding that black bakers cater a KKK wedding, even being forced to make a cake saying something to the effect of "Ship All The [n-word] Back to Africa" complete with a little figure of a lynched black person. If they balk they should then be branded as bigots and threatened with having their business destroyed.
And how about a Jewish baker being compelled to design a birthday cake for some neo-Nazis in the shape of the concentration camp at Auschwitz complete with little smokestack shaped candles.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Roy View PostNo-one is asking for wedding cakes decorated with Christian corpses... yet
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostFIFY n/cJorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Roy View PostWell if/when they do, you can resurrect your argument.Middle-of-the-road swing voter. Feel free to sway my opinion.
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Originally posted by Yttrium View PostOne should always consider extreme cases. Because there are always jerks out there who will take things to extremes just to see what they can get away with.
ETA: On a more serious note, it seems that more often than not it is what were considered "extreme cases" that end up in the courts.Last edited by rogue06; 06-15-2018, 09:59 AM.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Yttrium View PostOne should always consider extreme cases. Because there are always jerks out there who will take things to extremes just to see what they can get away with.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Roy View PostTrue - but one should not conflate them with non-extreme cases in order to promote extreme solutions that aren't justified.Middle-of-the-road swing voter. Feel free to sway my opinion.
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostSo you also agree the commission erred when it did not require homosexual bakers to make anti-gay marriage cakes? THIS it a key point in the case we're debating and a big part of why Colorado lost.
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Originally posted by Yttrium View PostIt doesn't require an extreme solution in this case. The baker should be able to follow his conscience and refuse to design cakes as he desires, with exceptions.
He shouldn't have to design a cake that celebrates KKK values, for example. But there are anti-discrimination laws concerning certain classes of people that he needs to follow
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostThe Civil Rights Act of 1964 outlaws all discrimination based on race, colour, religion, sex, or national origin in 'public accommodations' (which include cake shops). It does not allow exemptions in cases of personal conscience, whether it is about catering to gays, blacks, Jews or anyone else the proprietor has antipathy for...for whatever reason.
Certainly nobody should b required to decorate a cake with hate speech, although the laws against this in the US are comparatively unregulated when compared to that of most other similar countries.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
sigpic
I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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