SCOTUS & gay wedding cakes

[JimL]

They're cakes for a gay wedding, they're gay wedding cakes. The baker doesn't bake gay wedding cakes for anyone. Problem solved.

Wrong, they are wedding cakes for gay weddings, they are not gay wedding cakes. Cakes are neither straight or gay, they're cake! Cakes for interacial weddings are not interacial wedding cakes, they're simply wedding cakes.

[JimL]

Isn't Jim the one who couldn't even figure out what a "boy" was?

Nope, actually that was you who couldn't answer that, CP.

[Tassman]

EGGzackly, just like a "weddiing cake" is usually made by a professional cake-baker rather than a ready-made cake bought off the shelf at Kroger.

Maybe you're finally beginning to get it!

No, maybe YOU'RE "finally beginning to get it". Professional expertise in any given field...from cake-making to dress-making to hairdressing to home-decor, to garden-design, to floral-arrangements and to gourmet chef...does not equate to high art.

[Tassman]

They're cakes for a gay wedding, they're gay wedding cakes. The baker doesn't bake gay wedding cakes for anyone. Problem solved.

Um, do "gay wedding cakes" have sex with other "gay wedding cakes". What about bi-sexual wedding cakes, do they play around?

[Leonhard]

Wrong, they are wedding cakes for gay weddings, they are not gay wedding cakes.

Man, that's such a bad argument. I guess there's no gay movies either. There's no gay art. No gay anything. No gay poems, no gay protest songs. Lets just restrict the word gay in this discussion, to be exclusively for two people actively having sex with each other. Even the LGTBQ wouldn't make such a bad argument. They'd call it gay erasure to insist that something isn't an expression of, or a product by or for, gay culture.

They're gay wedding cakes, they're decorated and made for and to a gay wedding. Perhaps with a message written out for the two in chocolate calligraphy, and rainbow coloured icing etc. Look up and google it and you'll see a plethora of creative examples of cake art. You've already lost the argument here that wedding cakes aren't works of art. So has Tassman, now you guys are just repeating yourselves hoping you'll get the last word.

If the baker made a certain type of stock wedding cake, perhaps with figurines and chocolate sold seperately. There's nothing stopping the Christian baker from selling these things to the gay people. And I know at least one Christian baker who offered them just that. However to get a custom commission for a gay wedding cake falls under freedom of speech.

What is a pedophile wedding, Sparko?

Use your imagination JimL.

[Leonhard]

Um, do "gay wedding cakes" have sex with other "gay wedding cakes". What about bi-sexual wedding cakes, do they play around?

Yeah just like Brokeback Mountain went on a date with Milk, they even had public displays of affection!

I mean its cute and all that you guys wanna pretend that there's no such thing as gay culture, but seriously, its a dumb argument and while I thought you guys thinking custom wedding cakes weren't works of art were dumb. This is dumber.

[Tassman]

Man, that's such a bad argument. I guess there's no gay movies either. There's no gay art. No gay anything. No gay poems, no gay protest songs. Lets just restrict the word gay in this discussion, to be exclusively for two people actively having sex with each other. Even the LGTBQ wouldn't make such a bad argument. They'd call it gay erasure to insist that something isn't an expression of, or a product by or for, gay culture.

There is no “gay culture” which is divorced from the main-stream culture in which all people (straight or gay) must live out their lives. There may be gay-themed movies or poems etc but they are all part of the rich tapestry of community life to which all people contribute. Most of the achievements of gays are not necessarily concerned with “gayness” per se.

Oscar Wilde was gay, but you wouldn’t refer to his great plays as “gay”. And you wouldn’t refer to the cracking of the Enigma Code (which probably saved the free world) as gay...even though Alan Turing who cracked it was gay. Both of these gay individuals were severely persecuted by a homophobic community BTW. Society has come a long way since then.

Mostly!

They're gay wedding cakes, they're decorated and made for and to a gay wedding. Perhaps with a message written out for the two in chocolate calligraphy, and rainbow coloured icing etc. Look up and google it and you'll see a plethora of creative examples of cake art. You've already lost the argument here that wedding cakes aren't works of art. So has Tassman, now you guys are just repeating yourselves hoping you'll get the last word.

Your imagination is on overdrive. The few gay weddings I’ve been to, the wedding cakes have been indistinguishable from any other wedding cake except for the two male or two female figurines on top.

If the baker made a certain type of stock wedding cake, perhaps with figurines and chocolate sold seperately. There's nothing stopping the Christian baker from selling these things to the gay people. And I know at least one Christian baker who offered them just that. However to get a custom commission for a gay wedding cake falls under freedom of speech.

What the baker does in most cases is make a wedding cake in consultation with the happy couple...or more often their mothers. I would hardly call it a custom commission for a gay wedding cake...or a adulterous wedding cake in the case of Trump’s second and third marriages. Or a miscegenationous wedding cake in the case of a mixed marriage. It’s a cake. It’s what bakers do, freedom of speech is not impinged upon.

[Cow Poke]

Nope, actually that was you who couldn't answer that, CP.

Actually, it was part of your jackassery when you were stubbornly defending NAMBLA, Jim

No, you have no idea why IGLA may have accepted NAMBLA as a member, because you have no idea how NAMBLA came to be or what NAMBLA stood for. For one thing they did not consider themselves an organization that supported pediophilia and perhaps IGLA agreed with them which is why they may have accepted them as members. Thats what Tass meant by "I have no idea why they were admitted, AND NEITHER DO YOU."

From that, you devolved into challenging what a "boy" was as part of your 'age of consent" defense.

[JimL]

Actually, it was part of your jackassery when you were stubbornly defending NAMBLA, Jim



From that, you devolved into challenging what a "boy" was as part of your 'age of consent" defense.

Right, I simply challenged it, and you couldn't answer it.

[Cow Poke]

Right, I simply challenged it, and you couldn't answer it.

Prove I didn't answer it.

[Leonhard]

There is no “gay culture” which is divorced from the main-stream culture in which all people (straight or gay) must live out their lives.

Yes there is, and apparently that's troubling you. Its not a trouble to me at all. Nor is it to most gay people. There are works, arts, poems, songs, speeches, graffiti, performances, theatrical displays, etc... all dedicated to serving and reinforcing the gay community.

Being in denial of that is honestly weird.

Oscar Wilde was gay, but you wouldn't refer to his great plays as "gay".

I'm not aware that he specifically wrote any work dedicated to being gay, describing it, celebrating it, or putting a particular focus on it. Walt Whitman did of course have atleast one gay poem, though at those times finding something unambiguous is of course very difficult. And you'll find people arguing

Source: We Two Boys Together - Walt Whitman

We two boys together clinging
One the other never leaving
Up and down the roads going, North and South excursions making,
Power enjoying, elbows stretching, fingers clutching,
ArmÂ’d and fearless, eating, drinking, sleeping, loving,
No law less than ourselves owning, sailing, soldiering, thieving, threatening,
Misers, menials, priests alarming, air breathing, water drinking, on the turf or the sea-beach dancing,
Cities wrenching, ease scorning, statutes mocking, feebleness chasing,
Fulfilling our foray.

© Copyright Original Source

Though mostly I had in mind gay culture at large. Movies such as Happy Together, Boys Don't Cry, Beautiful Thing, Orlando, ... When it comes to poets the list grows too long to count after the seventies

Your imagination is on overdrive. The few gay weddings IÂ’ve been to, the wedding cakes have been indistinguishable from any other wedding cake except for the two male or two female figurines on top.

I think I stated a couple of times that if there were a standard option Wedding Cake, then the baker could not withhold it from them.

miscegenationous wedding cake

Its "miscegenation", though "miscegenatious" sounds strangely delicious. I'd rather see hearts and minds converted by a message, than the jackboot of the law. I'm very much pro business not being allowed to descriminate services against people, depending on sex, religion, ethnicity, etc... but I am very much against attempts to curb freedom of religion, and freedom of speech.

Especially by those LGBTQ activists who are in this, not because they want a cake, but because they're shopping around trying to find the one baker who will deny them. There's a revenge thing going on here, which is a rather sickening sight. Setting a precedent that rewards behavior like that, would be rather bad.

freedom of speech is not impinged upon.

Unless customisation of a cake, changing its design, marks the support of the particular thing the cake is for. Which is precisely what is under contention.

As I said I hope a court rules in favor of freedom.

[Tassman]

Actually, it was part of your jackassery when you were stubbornly defending NAMBLA, Jim



From that, you devolved into challenging what a "boy" was as part of your 'age of consent" defense.

Not that we're deflecting here, are we?

...a true creature of Trump: "Deflect, deflect, deflect!"

[Tassman]

Yes there is, and apparently that's troubling you. Its not a trouble to me at all. Nor is it to most gay people. There are works, arts, poems, songs, speeches, graffiti, performances, theatrical displays, etc... all dedicated to serving and reinforcing the gay community.

Being in denial of that is honestly weird.



I'm not aware that he specifically wrote any work dedicated to being gay, describing it, celebrating it, or putting a particular focus on it. Walt Whitman did of course have atleast one gay poem, though at those times finding something unambiguous is of course very difficult. And you'll find people arguing

Source: We Two Boys Together - Walt Whitman

We two boys together clinging
One the other never leaving
Up and down the roads going, North and South excursions making,
Power enjoying, elbows stretching, fingers clutching,
ArmÂ’d and fearless, eating, drinking, sleeping, loving,
No law less than ourselves owning, sailing, soldiering, thieving, threatening,
Misers, menials, priests alarming, air breathing, water drinking, on the turf or the sea-beach dancing,
Cities wrenching, ease scorning, statutes mocking, feebleness chasing,
Fulfilling our foray.

© Copyright Original Source

Though mostly I had in mind gay culture at large. Movies such as Happy Together, Boys Don't Cry, Beautiful Thing, Orlando, ... When it comes to poets the list grows too long to count after the seventies



I think I stated a couple of times that if there were a standard option Wedding Cake, then the baker could not withhold it from them.



Its "miscegenation", though "miscegenatious" sounds strangely delicious. I'd rather see hearts and minds converted by a message, than the jackboot of the law. I'm very much pro business not being allowed to descriminate services against people, depending on sex, religion, ethnicity, etc... but I am very much against attempts to curb freedom of religion, and freedom of speech.

Especially by those LGBTQ activists who are in this, not because they want a cake, but because they're shopping around trying to find the one baker who will deny them. There's a revenge thing going on here, which is a rather sickening sight. Setting a precedent that rewards behavior like that, would be rather bad.



Unless customisation of a cake, changing its design, marks the support of the particular thing the cake is for. Which is precisely what is under contention.

As I said I hope a court rules in favor of freedom.

I too hope the "court rules in favour of freedom", the same "freedom" enjoyed by every other citizen...namely the right of gay citizens to marry without discrimination as per the Civil Rights Act. The argument that a decorated cake qualifies as a work of art is pretentious nonsense and a transparent excuse to discriminate against a section of the community in contravention of civil law.

BTW: ""miscegenatious" is actually a word, I checked first. But I agree that it's a bit of a mouthful.

[Cow Poke]

Not that we're deflecting here, are we?

You and Jim? You probably are, yes. You guys are morphing into Trump.

[Tassman]

Yes there is, and apparently that's troubling you. Its not a trouble to me at all. Nor is it to most gay people. There are works, arts, poems, songs, speeches, graffiti, performances, theatrical displays, etc... all dedicated to serving and reinforcing the gay community.

Further to this point which I missed: There is not a “gay culture per se, merely the social milieu in which we all live and and to which we all contribute. This comprises ALL citizens including gays. Of course there will be gay themed movies and literature etc, just as there is for and by feminists, blacks and white heterosexuals. All of this comprises the rich tapestry in which we are fortunate to live. But, no citizen warrants being discriminated against on the basis of who they are, just as no citizen warrants special treatment for whatever reason...and this includes religion-based reasons.