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SCOTUS & gay wedding cakes

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  • Originally posted by seer View Post
    Never mind the fact that the free exercise of religion is a Constitutional right, getting your wedding cake made is not.
    It has been clear all along that any person - gay, straight, or confused - can go into the cake shop and buy anything off the shelf. No discrimination. The problem comes when somebody puts themselves above the cake artist and decides their desires are more important than the cake artist's convictions.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      It has been clear all along that any person - gay, straight, or confused - can go into the cake shop and buy anything off the shelf. No discrimination. The problem comes when somebody puts themselves above the cake artist and decides their desires are more important than the cake artist's convictions.
      The cake artist. You're too funny, CP.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        It has been clear all along that any person - gay, straight, or confused - can go into the cake shop and buy anything off the shelf. No discrimination.
        Perhaps in this case. But there have been cases where bakers have refused to provide cakes they would have provided to straight couples. Or generic cupcakes if used for a gay ceremony. Or pizza for a gay wedding. That is discrimination. By focussing on the cases where the design is the issue, and ignoring the cases where it is not, you are avoiding the problem.

        Or do you think that pizza isn't an off-the-shelf item?
        Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

        MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
        MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

        seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

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        • Originally posted by Roy View Post
          Perhaps in this case.


          But there have been cases where bakers have refused to provide cakes they would have provided to straight couples. Or generic cupcakes if used for a gay ceremony. Or pizza for a gay wedding. That is discrimination. By focussing on the cases where the design is the issue, and ignoring the cases where it is not, you are avoiding the problem.
          I tried to look at your cite, but they want me to sign up for a gay website. Not interested. In the quick peep that I saw, however, this wasn't about "pizza for a gay wedding" - it was actually about catering that wedding, which is a totally different situation. And, the reason we're "focusing on the cases where the design is the issue" is because that's on topic for this thread.

          Or do you think that pizza isn't an off-the-shelf item?
          In some cases, pizza is indeed an "off-the-shelf" item. Usually, it's made to order. In the case you cited, it apparently was a catering situation, not a sales situation.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            In some cases, pizza is indeed an "off-the-shelf" item. Usually, it's made to order. In the case you cited, it apparently was a catering situation, not a sales situation.
            Right:

            After owners of Memories Pizza in Walkerton, Ind., said they won't outright deny service to gay couples in their restaurant, but would never cater a same-sex wedding, the shop has temporarily closed.

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            • Originally posted by seer View Post
              Right:

              After owners of Memories Pizza in Walkerton, Ind., said they won't outright deny service to gay couples in their restaurant, but would never cater a same-sex wedding, the shop has temporarily closed.

              Ah, and local papers and radio stations report that it reopened, then closed permanently. Apparently, Glen Beck - the Blaze - oversaw the raising of over $800,000 for the couple, so, maybe they can retire in peace and prosperity.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by seer View Post
                Right:

                After owners of Memories Pizza in Walkerton, Ind., said they won't outright deny service to gay couples in their restaurant, but would never cater a same-sex wedding, the shop has temporarily closed.

                Yeah that is actually trying to force them to ATTEND the wedding reception.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  Yeah that is actually trying to force them to ATTEND the wedding reception.
                  And, that's a major distinction. It would cause them to give the false impression that they support same-sex marriage.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    And, that's a major distinction. It would cause them to give the false impression that they support same-sex marriage.
                    Of course, they could have attended the reception and worn aprons with bible verses on them condemning homosexuality. Free speech and all. And handed out pamphlets.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      Of course, they could have attended the reception and worn aprons with bible verses on them condemning homosexuality. Free speech and all. And handed out pamphlets.
                      You might be on to something!
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        You might be on to something!
                        Never miss an opportunity to witness to people and share the gospel!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          Of course, they could have attended the reception and worn aprons with bible verses on them condemning homosexuality. Free speech and all. And handed out pamphlets.
                          Incidentally, the possibility of their doing so does not mean the law isn't violating the 1st Amendment. As I quoted (in Post #126) from Clarence Thomas' concurring opinion:

                          "The Colorado Court of Appeals also erred by suggesting that Phillips could simply post a disclaimer, disassociating Masterpiece from any support for same-sex marriage. Again, this argument would justify any law compelling speech. And again, this Court has rejected it. We have described similar arguments as “beg[ging] the core ques*tion.” Tornillo, supra, at 256. Because the government cannot compel speech, it also cannot “require speakers to affirm in one breath that which they deny in the next.”

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Roy View Post


                            Or do you think that pizza isn't an off-the-shelf item?
                            Of course not. Pizza makers are "PIZZA ARTISTS"...same as CP's "cake artists" above.
                            Last edited by Tassman; 07-31-2018, 12:38 AM.
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                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Joel View Post
                              Incidentally, the possibility of their doing so does not mean the law isn't violating the 1st Amendment. As I quoted (in Post #126) from Clarence Thomas' concurring opinion:

                              "The Colorado Court of Appeals also erred by suggesting that Phillips could simply post a disclaimer, disassociating Masterpiece from any support for same-sex marriage. Again, this argument would justify any law compelling speech. And again, this Court has rejected it. We have described similar arguments as “beg[ging] the core ques*tion.” Tornillo, supra, at 256. Because the government cannot compel speech, it also cannot “require speakers to affirm in one breath that which they deny in the next.”
                              True. I was just suggesting it as a way to use the situation to preach the truth and the gospel. Make the best out of a bad situation. I would also have informed the clients that is what I was planning on doing so they could choose to hire a different catering service if they wished.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                                Of course not. Pizza makers are "PIZZA ARTISTS"...same as CP's "cake artists" above.
                                In this case it was not the pizza, but the catering that was in question. By hiring them to cater, they were forcing them to attend the actual event that they disagreed with. Would you make a black caterer cater a KKK event?

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