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American Job Openings Now Outnumber the Jobless

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
    I don't think it's correct to see a statistic like "more jobs than jobless" and assume the jobs are attainable by the jobless or are able to support them, but if your experience is indicative of the wider surplus, it's good news.
    I think it speaks to outside help (in this case, several faith-based interests) doing the match making. It's a proven model, but it's so "not government". Plus, we provide a $1500 scholarship on the completion of our course payable to whatever college or trade school they want to attend, and we draw in local businesses to help train in interviewing techniques and the like.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      I think it speaks to outside help (in this case, several faith-based interests) doing the match making. It's a proven model, but it's so "not government". Plus, we provide a $1500 scholarship on the completion of our course payable to whatever college or trade school they want to attend, and we draw in local businesses to help train in interviewing techniques and the like.
      How wide-spread would you estimate the model to be?

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        I think it speaks to outside help (in this case, several faith-based interests) doing the match making. It's a proven model, but it's so "not government". Plus, we provide a $1500 scholarship on the completion of our course payable to whatever college or trade school they want to attend, and we draw in local businesses to help train in interviewing techniques and the like.
        So you think jobs programs like that are good, and you're at least somewhat involved in one... yet in another thread when I mentioned that a lot of Dems now want the federal government to put some money into programs like the one you think is good, you had strong but unspecified objections to the idea... sometimes you seem very weird.

        Is your view that if it's churches doing it, it's "good" but if it's government doing the same thing it's "bad"? Or that the moment the government gives $1 in support to existing private organisations doing this, that those organisations will instantly crumble? Is it just more simplistic conservative ideology of "the government can't do anything good... okay, except maybe the military... okay, and maybe medicare... okay, and maybe deportations and border control... okay, and maybe torture programs and spying... but anything else the government ever does is Terrible... and if we repeat the mantra of 'the government can't create jobs' often enough it will totally become true."?
        "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
        "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
        "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
          How wide-spread would you estimate the model to be?
          It's at least nationwide - https://www.jobsforlife.org/
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Starlight View Post
            So you think jobs programs like that are good, and you're at least somewhat involved in one... yet in another thread when I mentioned that a lot of Dems now want the federal government to put some money into programs like the one you think is good...
            How bout being a little more specific so I know what you're talking about.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              How bout being a little more specific so I know what you're talking about.
              Starting at the end of this post and a follow-up explanation we had an exchange.

              It went:

              CP: "There are SO MANY problems with this post, I don't even know where to begin, so I'll just leave you to your fantasy."

              SL: "That's fine, I don't expect you to be able to come up with objections instantly, so take time to think about it. Also, bear in mind, you don't need to object to something just because I support it."

              CP: "I object to it because it's insane. Stupid. Idiotic. The fact that you support it is not surprising at all."

              I'm not trimming your posts there, the one liners were your entire contribution. So I'm somewhat surprised to see you do such a u-turn from labeling jobs programs as "insane" to actively supporting one.
              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                Starting at the end of this post and a follow-up explanation we had an exchange.

                It went:

                CP: "There are SO MANY problems with this post, I don't even know where to begin, so I'll just leave you to your fantasy."

                SL: "That's fine, I don't expect you to be able to come up with objections instantly, so take time to think about it. Also, bear in mind, you don't need to object to something just because I support it."

                CP: "I object to it because it's insane. Stupid. Idiotic. The fact that you support it is not surprising at all."

                I'm not trimming your posts there, the one liners were your entire contribution. So I'm somewhat surprised to see you do such a u-turn from labeling jobs programs as "insane" to actively supporting one.
                Do you know how to use the quote function?
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  So you think jobs programs like that are good, and you're at least somewhat involved in one... yet in another thread when I mentioned that a lot of Dems now want the federal government to put some money into programs like the one you think is good, you had strong but unspecified objections to the idea... sometimes you seem very weird.
                  Wow, so you're comparing Bernie's nutty "let the government be their employer" idiocy to a program that actually gets them jobs...

                  And you portray it as "put some money into programs"......

                  The program we run that WORKS costs the taxpayers ZERO.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    Wow, so you're comparing Bernie's nutty "let the government be their employer" idiocy to a program that actually gets them jobs...
                    I am happy with any type of program that results in people who previously did not have jobs ending up with jobs. It is one of those areas where I think the approach should be "Try everything: All of the above". So I not overly concerned with nitpicking whether one particular method is better or worse. Senate Dems have proposed a variety of different jobs programs this year, and I think that's great, and I haven't looked at the differences between their proposals.

                    The program we run that WORKS costs the taxpayers ZERO.
                    Aren't Churches tax-exempt? So the taxpayer is effectively funding those activities to the tune of the tax rate.

                    Do you think programs like yours would get worse if they had more government funding?
                    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                      I am happy with any type of program that results in people who previously did not have jobs ending up with jobs. It is one of those areas where I think the approach should be "Try everything: All of the above". So I not overly concerned with nitpicking whether one particular method is better or worse. Senate Dems have proposed a variety of different jobs programs this year, and I think that's great, and I haven't looked at the differences between their proposals.
                      I was re-reading that thread, and you're really more batpoop nutty than I had remembered.

                      Aren't Churches tax-exempt? So the taxpayer is effectively funding those activities to the tune of the tax rate.
                      The churches aren't funding these programs. The Churches might provide meeting space or snacks, but this comes out of the pockets of those of us who believe in the program along with corporate sponsors who believe in the program.

                      Do you think programs like yours would get worse if they had more government funding?
                      Absolutely, because government money always has strings, and always seems to find the most expensive and ineffective way to not do things.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                        So you think jobs programs like that are good, and you're at least somewhat involved in one...
                        I actually run the program about every other year.

                        yet in another thread when I mentioned that a lot of Dems now want the federal government to put some money...
                        When you say "some money" (), how much is that? Cause it wouldn't just be paying the workers, it would have to be a whole system of hiring, supervising, back office, training, requiring supervisors, managers....

                        into programs like the one you think is good,
                        You're bonkers if you think any government program is even remotely like "the one I think is good". (And I think it's good because it actually works, and costs the taxpayers ZERO)

                        you had strong but unspecified objections to the idea...
                        I've specified my objections. Happy?

                        sometimes you seem very weird.
                        Only sometimes?

                        Is your view that if it's churches doing it, it's "good" but if it's government doing the same thing it's "bad"?
                        No, it's my view that if it actually works and costs the taxpayers nothing, it's good, but if it's the government spending tons of taxpayer money with poor results - even Huffpo says government jobs programs fail! - then that's bad.

                        Or that the moment the government gives $1
                        That's a joke, right?

                        in support to existing private organisations doing this, that those organisations will instantly crumble?


                        Is it just more simplistic conservative ideology of "the government can't do anything good... okay, except maybe the military... okay, and maybe medicare... okay, and maybe deportations and border control... okay, and maybe torture programs and spying... but anything else the government ever does is Terrible... and if we repeat the mantra of 'the government can't create jobs' often enough it will totally become true."?
                        Let's see - I'm involved in jobs programs that cost the taxpayers nothing, and actually result in (I stand corrected) over 90% employment to it's graduates, and you want to compare that to Bernie setting up a whole system to hire people at taxpayer expense at who knows how much cost...

                        Meanwhile, we're having a hard time getting the summer/fall jobs program started because we can't find enough out-of-work people who want to apply for the training and the $1500 scholarship! This might be the first time in 8 years we haven't had two class per year!
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          So you think jobs programs like that are good, and you're at least somewhat involved in one... yet in another thread when I mentioned that a lot of Dems now want the federal government to put some money into programs like the one you think is good, you had strong but unspecified objections to the idea... sometimes you seem very weird.

                          Is your view that if it's churches doing it, it's "good" but if it's government doing the same thing it's "bad"? Or that the moment the government gives $1 in support to existing private organisations doing this, that those organisations will instantly crumble? Is it just more simplistic conservative ideology of "the government can't do anything good... okay, except maybe the military... okay, and maybe medicare... okay, and maybe deportations and border control... okay, and maybe torture programs and spying... but anything else the government ever does is Terrible... and if we repeat the mantra of 'the government can't create jobs' often enough it will totally become true."?
                          1. Governments love regulations and cookie cutter solutions. Get the government involved and cost will go up along with dozens of requirements that have little to do with putting people to work.
                          2. The military isn’t a well oiled machine of efficiency either, but it’s the governments job to protect its citizens.
                          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            I was re-reading that thread, and you're really more batpoop nutty than I had remembered.
                            You off your meds?

                            The churches aren't funding these programs. The Churches might provide meeting space or snacks,
                            Venue costs can get expensive if you actually have to hire them, free space to run the program in isn't nothing.

                            Absolutely, because government money always has strings
                            Some skeptical people might translate that as "if we took any government funding we wouldn't be able to do the evangelism that this 'help you find jobs' program is the front for".

                            and always seems to find the most expensive and ineffective way to not do things.
                            Pure idiotic and ideological BS.

                            You're bonkers if you think any government program is even remotely like "the one I think is good".
                            The government here regularly sub-contracts out to private groups and charities for this kind of thing. I see no reason to draw any strong distinction between programs run by the government itself and programs run by charities or private entities that can receive government funding. Your "private good, government bad" BS just makes you look like a caricature.

                            I'm involved in jobs programs that cost the taxpayers nothing, and actually result in (I stand corrected) over 90% employment to it's graduates
                            Great.

                            and you want to compare that to Bernie setting up a whole system to hire people at taxpayer expense at who knows how much cost
                            Yes, they exist on a continuum of many types of possible job programs. As I said earlier, I support an "all of the above" approach. Your program sounds good, his one sounds good, other Dems have suggested ones that sound good.
                            "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                            "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                            "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                              You off your meds?
                              Never on any - I take one baby aspirin every morning.

                              Venue costs can get expensive if you actually have to hire them, free space to run the program in isn't nothing.
                              And we're pleased as punch to provide it.

                              Some skeptical people might translate that as "if we took any government funding...
                              I don't give a flyin' flip about what 'some skeptical people might" say.

                              Fact is - I like the way we're doing this a WHOLE lot better than the way you're not.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I just got the perfect work from home job for stay at home mothers...... Just sayin. No special treatment. Won't be a millionaire but it'll pay da bills.
                                A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
                                George Bernard Shaw

                                Comment

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