Organic Matter found on Mars

[shunyadragon]

Source: https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/07/us/nasa-mars-curiosity-rover-findings/index.html

NASA's Curiosity rover finds organic matter on Mars

(CNN)Organic matter has been found on Mars in soil samples taken from 3 billion-year-old mudstone in the Gale crater by the Curiosity rover, NASA announced Thursday. The rover has also detected methane in the Martian atmosphere.

The search for life outside Earth focuses on the building blocks of life as we know it, which includes organic compounds and molecules -- although these can exist without life. Organic matter can be one of several things: a record detailing ancient life, a food source for life or something that exists in the place of life. No matter its purpose, these work as "chemical clues" for researchers about Mars. Methane is considered the simplest organic molecule. It's present in other places in our solar system that could host life, like Saturn and Jupiter's moons Enceladus, Europa and Titan. And if life does exist elsewhere, it may be very different or even form differently from how we understand life on Earth.

The new findings are also detailed in two studies published Thursday in the journal Science. Together, the researchers believe these findings to be "breakthroughs in astrobiology."

"We have greatly expanded our search for organic compounds, which is fundamental in the search for life," said Paul Mahaffy, study author and director of the Solar System Exploration Division at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center. The two studies build on and advance smaller detections of atmospheric methane and ancient organic compounds on Mars. Those detections either caused debate or lacked the context for understanding, the researchers said. But Curiosity's data are providing a clearer and more conclusive picture of the conditions and processes on Mars -- and what it may have been like on the Red Planet billions of years ago, when conditions were more suitable for life.

"With these new findings, Mars is telling us to stay the course and keep searching for evidence of life," said Thomas Zurbuchen, associate administrator for the Science Mission Directorate at NASA Headquarters. "I'm confident that our ongoing and planned missions will unlock even more breathtaking discoveries on the Red Planet."

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[shunyadragon]

I have been following this over the years, and it has been known for years that methane was in the atmosphere of Mars. What is new here is they found organic molecules in the rock in the lake bed. I was a little frustrated with this article, because it did not reference the original research that found the organic chemicals in the rock. I would like to know what organic chemicals they found in the rock, which was lake sediment mudstone.

[Starlight]

Link to full paper for you.

Diverse pyrolysis products, including thiophenic, aromatic, and aliphatic compounds released at high temperatures (500° to 820°C), were directly detected by evolved gas analysis. Thiophenes were also observed by gas chromatography–mass spectrometry....

SAM’s molecular observations do not clearly reveal the source of the organic matter in the Murray formation. Biological, geological, and meteoritic sources are all possible. Certainly, if ancient life was the organic source, then despite sulfur incorporation, the material has been altered sufficiently, such as by diagenesis or ionizing radiation (23), to obscure original molecular features more consistent with life (e.g., a greater diversity of molecules or patterns of limited structural variation within compound classes, such as hydrocarbon chains), or an insufficient amount of organic matter was deposited to allow detection by pyrolysis–GC-MS.

[One Bad Pig]

Given that "organic matter" simply means "molecules containing one or more carbon atoms" and carbon is a byproduct of late-stage massive stellar fusion, it's rather unsurprising that some is found here and there - no "life" required. It also goes without saying that any organic molecule found on the surface of Mars isn't going to be very complex due to the deleterious effects of continual minimally filtered radiation bombardment.

[shunyadragon]

Given that "organic matter" simply means "molecules containing one or more carbon atoms" and carbon is a byproduct of late-stage massive stellar fusion, it's rather unsurprising that some is found here and there - no "life" required. It also goes without saying that any organic molecule found on the surface of Mars isn't going to be very complex due to the deleterious effects of continual minimally filtered radiation bombardment.

The organic chemical found in the mudstone, not on the surface, are not simply "molecules containing one or more carbon atoms."The evidence is, of course, not conclusive, but the organic chemicals found in the lake bed rock are complex organic molecules.

[oxmixmudd]

The organic chemical found in the mudstone, not on the surface, are not simply "molecules containing one or more carbon atoms."The evidence is, of course, not conclusive, but the organic chemicals found in the lake bed rock are complex organic molecules.

I have for a long time believed that our first real evidence for life not on earth would be found on Mars. It seems headed that way, but time will tell. My Christian brothers and sisters whose faith rests on the belief the earth is only 6000 years old and God used miraculous rather than natural processes to create life will likely struggle if that indeed is the case. But I believe it would be wise to start thinking about what that might mean and how to respond to it.

Jim

[One Bad Pig]

I have for a long time believed that our first real evidence for life not on earth would be found on Mars. It seems headed that way, but time will tell. My Christian brothers and sisters whose faith rests on the belief the earth is only 6000 years old and God used miraculous rather than natural processes to create life will likely struggle if that indeed is the case. But I believe it would be wise to start thinking about what that might mean and how to respond to it.

Jim

They shouldn't struggle with it. Denying its possibility is an argument from silence.

[oxmixmudd]

They shouldn't struggle with it. Denying its possibility is an argument from silence.

I expect it will be a fairly difficult pill to swallow. It has very strong implications for evolution v and for the minimum age of the solar system.

Jim

[Duragizer]

I expect it will be a fairly difficult pill to swallow. It has very strong implications for evolution v and for the minimum age of the solar system.

Jim

Years ago, I came across an article on AiG which touched on the topic. The author hypothesized any organic matter found on Mars could have a terrestrial origin.

[oxmixmudd]

Years ago, I came across an article on AiG which touched on the topic. The author hypothesized any organic matter found on Mars could have a terrestrial origin.

Keeping in mind the time it takes to traverse the gap and the time it would take to distribute globally when the only place it can survive is underground, not so much. Even if non is alive now, you have to get enough of it to Mars that randomly drilling in a formation that according to its geology would be a good place to look would find some.

This is not a plausible story even for somebody who wants to believe.

Jim

[HMS_Beagle]

Keeping in mind the time it takes to traverse the gap and the time it would take to distribute globally when the only place it can survive is underground, not so much. Even if non is alive now, you have to get enough of it to Mars that randomly drilling in a formation that according to its geology would be a good place to look would find some.

This is not a plausible story even for somebody who wants to believe.

Jim

You know darn well Ken Hambone and Wacky Wally Brown are already working on stories of how the Fountains Of The Deep blew chunks of the Earth containing organic material all the way to Mars. MOAR EVIDUNCE FER CREATION!!

[Roy]

You know darn well Ken Hambone and Wacky Wally Brown are already working on stories of how the Fountains Of The Deep blew chunks of the Earth containing organic material all the way to Mars. MOAR EVIDUNCE FER CREATION!!

Nah, it was those rock-throwing angels that made the Martian craters! Where do you think they got the rocks from? EARTH, obviously! And if those rocks had some moss clinging to them, well that explains the traces of moss on Mars! Course that moss couldn't have got there from Earth by Darwinution, so Darwininism failz again!